The Way Communism Affected Romania
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IMPORTANT NOTE
Let’s make sure we all understand: communism was NOT a political regime but an economic system the same exact way capitalism and socialism is.
Too often this misunderstanding creates a lot of confusion and not less frustration.
The Way it Goes
It is part of the human nature to see only one side of the coin and get just half of the picture while blaming others of suffering from myopia.
As we should know, nothing in life is either pitch-black or pure white; just a boring shade of gray. Communism was no different. It is still amazing to me to see how misinformed people really are and how little do they know about communism while having very strong opinions about it.
Most of the knowledge that people have about the communist era is due to the capitalistic propaganda machine that works by the same principles as the proletarian one; nothing more than slogans meant to brainwash the masses and create a false image of “perfection” and unrealistic pride about its own merits while distorting reality and instilling fear for the opposite system.
After living for 30 years in the deep “Hell” of communism and another 30 years in the “Paradise” of the American democracy, one thing became painfully loud and clear; called by different names, political regimes are all the same.
Rarely “by the people” and never “for the people”, all governments are designed to protect the ones in power and to do whatever it takes to perpetuate their privileges.
The way it was
For 45 long years, Romania lived the experience of the utopia experiment that cost thousands of lives and affected an entire generation. Idealistically, communism was meant to empower the masses and give equal rights to its citizens. Theoretical ideologies rarely work and, not surprisingly, communism failed miserably.
While suffering persecution and depravation, the eyes of the people living under communism were constantly looking towards the west, hoping and praying the promised “salvation” will come. It never did. Communism collapsed from within.
The early times 1944 - 1949
Getting a grip on power
On August 23 the Red Army troops entered Romania who had joined the Allies and was fighting the German Army all the way to Berlin. The Romanian communist party was getting a strong grip on power and through vote manipulation installed its first government under the leadership of Petru Groza while King Michael was still head of the country until he was forced to abdicate on December 31 1947.
The stalinist era 1949 - 1954
This was the most repressive era of the communist dictatorship and is probably the period that most westerners remember and associate the communism with. Few people went a step farther and actually followed the changes that ultimately defined the European communism as a more relaxed form of government than initially though and in direct opposition to China’s and North Korea’s communism
During those first years of communism, the de facto power belonged to Ana Pauker (a Stalin protégé who spent many years in Moscow and was irremediably indoctrinated); she proved to be ruthless and initiated severe persecutions of political dissidents, subjecting them to forced labor (the infamous Danube – Black Sea Canal), where many of them died during detention.
At the same time, the agrarian reform, meant to expropriate the land of peasants was put into action at the request of the Soviet Union who planned to make Romania the “breadbasket” of the newly formed Communist block and transform it into a major source of agrarian supplies.
After the death of Stalin in 1953, many of his most devoted followers, including Ana Pauker, fell from grace and were marginalized and eventually eliminated from power. The new leader, Gheorghe Gheorghiu-Dej, although a Stalinist at heart, he loosen some of the repressions against the political dissidents, stopped the construction of the Canal, relaxed the process of forced collectivization and, against Soviet policies, favored the industrialization of Romania.
Dej sided with China and joined the “non interference in domestic policies” stand, limiting the Soviet influence, while encouraging a new nationalistic sentiment (which often interfered with the social and political rights of German and Hungarian minorities).
In 1958 the Red Army withdrew its last troops from Romania and national sovereignty, independence and self-determination became the new mantra. To strengthen its position domestically, Dej improved trade relation with the Western world, including United States, which resulted in better living conditions.
The new face of communism
Ceausescu's policies between 1965 – 1980
After The death of Georghiu-Dej, Nicolae Ceausescu was nominated as the head of the Romanian communist party and his leadership brought about a period of domestic relaxation and unprecedented defiance in regards to the Soviet Union international relations.
Although no genuine political liberalization took place, the intrusiveness of the regime in individual lives was curtailed. The availability of consumer goods and housing improved, and services as health care, education, and pensions became more generous and much appreciated by the population.
Change was especially evident in cultural and intellectual life and the decade of 1965-1975 was indeed a Romanian Renaissance, with remarkable accomplishments in arts and science.
The vehement protest of the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia in August 1968, put Romania at the center of international political life and, overnight made Ceausescu the darling of the West, affording him the prestige he was craving for as well as a more comfortable platform to implement essential changes.
Ceausescu’s abilities as a shrewd politician took most people by surprise and after Nixon’s visit to Romania in 1969 he became the “go between messenger” in an effort to normalize diplomatic relations between America and China. Due to the double standards of Kissinger (who was making deals at the same time and for the same purpose with the president of Pakistan), Ceausescu was not given much credit for such actions; nevertheless, western powers were rewording him by throwing money at Romania’s doorsteps and as a consequence, living conditions improved considerably.
In August 1, 1975 Ceausescu signed the Human Right Accord in Helsinki and that was the beginning of a new era of much more relaxed domestic policies, including the right of any citizen to leave Romania and establish residence abroad.
The return of Dark Ages 1980 - 1989
After using Ceausescu for its own purpose, America just about discarded him wounding his inflated ego to the point of no return. Going against the best interest of the Romanian people, Ceausescu decided to re-pay all the loans at once; a period of unprecedented depravation followed and the scarcity of most elementary needs for survival brought the population to the breaking point.
Was there a Revolution?!
Most people give Ronald Regan, Mihail Gorbaciov and Margaret Thatcher credit for the collapse of communism; their influence should not be minimized, but a simple summation as “Tear down that wall, Mr. President” would not have been enough to end a historic period of abuse and oppression. Communism collapsed from within.
The historic moment of June 3 1989, when a single man stood in front of a convoy of moving tanks ready to enter the Tiananmen Square, marked the beginning of the end and gave hopes to millions of desperate people. The Berlin Wall fell in November 1989 and the ball was rolling fast and could not be stopped. One after another, all countries of the communist block overthrew their governments.
Ceausescu never believed that his “reign” could ever come to an end and his confidence in the security agents, trained to enforce the rules and protect him, was unlimited. He made some fatal mistakes (as leaving the country for a short visit to North Korea and, more importantly and hard to explain, he asked the people of Bucharest to gather in front of the Parliament, ignoring the volatile situation). Rumor has it that it was a coupe d’etat orchestrated by the CIA who helped forming an opposition party. Whatever it was, the fact remains that, as opposed to any other country, Romania’s overthrown of communism was bloody: for days, images of public unrest and Ceausescu’s pursuit was dominating the international news (a rather convenient way to divert attention from the failed American attempt to capture Noriega, who was also on the run and hiding).
On Christmas Day 1989, Ceausescu and his wife were executed after a questionable trial that, once again, raised suspicions of a rushed decision to eliminate him and replace his government. Most people were celebrating their execution and, revenge rather than justice, was all that Romanians cared about at the moment.
A provisory government was improvised and free elections, as well as a new constitution, was promised to follow soon. With communism gone, Romania entered a new era of history.
Was there a Revolution?
Evaluating the communism
the almost good, the mostly bad and everything in between
Things are much too complicated to put them in distinct categories of “good, bad or indifferent”, so while I will be trying my best, it will never fully reflect the complex and interconnected reality, so please bear with me if you would.
The almost Good
Education
The education system was better than just “almost good”. Aside from the fact that it was free (from kindergarten all the way to a PhD) extreme emphasis was put on developing a well-rounded education based not only on accumulating knowledge, but also on accomplishing high intellectual standards. Encouraged by government and parents alike, education was a prime goal and respect for teachers and their authority was an integral part of the equation.
Attending cultural events was highly encouraged and affordable; the price of an opera ticket was the equivalent of lunch and buying a book cost as much as a cup of coffee.
After graduation every student was guaranteed employment according to their specific qualifications and, as a form of re-paying the government for having received free education, a mandatory, but rarely enforced law required 3 years of employment in remote parts of the country which would not have been the first choice of graduates. Getting around such requirement was relatively simple and, through personal connections or bribery most people avoided it.
Health care for all was a given and it was completely free.
Although by no means at the high level of modern medicine, which benefits from and heavily relays on sophisticated equipment, the Romanian approach to health care was mainly preventive. All children were vaccinated against poliomyelitis, tuberculosis, encephalitis and other diseases from an early age and naturopathic medicine was practiced by the vast majority, way before it become fashionable in the western world. After retirement people benefited from spending 3-4 weeks a year in low cost, government subsidized facilities where therapeutic treatments were performed.
Maternity leave was generous; 6 month at full pay and an additional 3 month at 80% pay, followed by another 3 month at 50% salary, was customary. As a choice, mothers could stay home for 7 years at no pay while taking care of small children and employment in the same position and at the same pay was guaranteed upon return (a far cry from the realities of free market economies).
Part of the preventive health care approach was the encouragement of physical exercise which was part of the curriculum in every school. As a result, for decades most of the best Olympic athletes came from communist countries.
Equal pay
Women were never considered a second class citizen and from the very beginning enjoyed equal pay for equal work and qualification. Women were encouraged to get into high education and they were promoted according to their performance; some were part of high management, some took an active role as part of the government.
The mostly Bad
Human and civic rights were limited at best and ignored most of the time, although, the constitution of 1948 clearly stated the freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of the press. In reality, those rights have never been enforced and abuses were committed on a regular base. For the most part, Romania was functioning in a state of fear and suspicion; a network of security agents was infiltrating almost every aspect of everyone’s life and a deep sense of insecurity was predominant.
If you believe that the communist dictatorial practices were grossly infringing in the rights protected and cherished by the American Constitution, think again. Please check the Patriotic Act. Better yet, read it; twice. You will find astonishing similarities!
While there was never any ambiguity in the communist definition of itself as the “dictatorship of the proletarians” what has became of the Founding Fathers dream of democracy and the power of “we the people” is disturbing at best, especially when it proclaims itself as being the most just and honorable system humanity ever came up with.
Like it or not, hypocrisy is another form of brutality.
The primary propaganda tool of any political regime is the media. To believe that there is such thing as an independent media is naïve to put it politely. Serving the interest of political parties and governments, the media is manipulating the news to fit the agenda of the ones in power by brainwashing the masses with slogans meant to reinforce the official version of the events. Communism was no different; what was different is the unintended awareness of the masses that was created as a result of being fed half truths. As a consequence, people learned fast how to interpret the news, how to read between the lines and where to look for the “small print” in order to get a more complete idea about what was really going on. My hub “A lesson America should learn” will give you more details about this.
Aside from the oppressive political climate, people endured extreme depravation and scarcity of basic goods, especially during the first and last decade of communist ruling. Interminable lines were formed for hour (if not days) in front of empty supermarkets where people were waiting for the truck to come, not knowing when will it arrive or what will it bring. As a consequence, the “rat mentality” of making provisions and store whatever could be found was becoming part of the Romanian psyche.
Retirement age was 55 for women and 60 for men and opening positions for the newly graduates, resulted in almost inexistent unemployment.
Although everyone was given a job, the wages were low and most people were supplementing their income in “creative ways”. Corruption was affecting everyone’s life and the need for survival forced people to look for ways of making ends meet.
Some of the methods were innocent enough and nobody put any blame on the ones who were tutoring or turning their family’s car into an ad hoc taxi. Other methods were less orthodox and went from stealing to blackmail or selling goods under the table at a premium.
In order to obtain favors or special treatment a carton of super long Kent cigarettes was considered better than hard currency and could open any and all doors.
A joke, that actually reflected perfectly the reality, was going like that: “The same carton of Kent cigarettes went from a teacher to a physician, who in turn gave it to a mechanic; the mechanic gave the cigarettes to a lawyer who then gave it to a judge and ultimately the carton ended up with the same teacher who gave it once again to a mechanic, lawyer or a doctor”.
The Everything in between
Communism was a very gray area and it called for uniformity, ignoring that people are not equal in terms of intellect, talents and abilities. The intent was to level personalities, to destroy the initiative of the individual and to turn the masses into obedient followers while promising them security and “paternal” care. While some people went for it and never did anything about it, most others followed the passive resistance of Gandhi’s philosophy and, silent sabotage was part of everyday life, at all levels. The economic disaster was in great part due to such sabotage and the saying “you pretend to be paying us, we pretend to be working” was on everyone’s lips.
Remember George Orwell’s saying “Some are more equal than others”?
For an ideological doctrine that emphatically proclaimed equality as being at the very base of society, communism was far from it. While it is true that most people were equally poor, the privileged few enjoyed an extravagant life style.
The proclaimed “equality” refers mostly to the fact that about 98% of the people had a similar life style and the difference in salary between a factory worker and high management was not greater than 1 to 3. More or less, the wages of professionals, whether doctors, engineers or teachers were not substantially higher than those of regular workers. In effect, the celebrated equality was bringing everyone’s living standards to the lowest common denominator.
Most people developed survival skills and adapted to the precarious conditions without compromising entirely personal beliefs. The slow cooking and the under pressure pot was boiling.
For the most part the communist regime was tolerant in terms of religion rights. Although not exactly encouraged, the official Christian Orthodox Religion as well as Catholicism and Judaism were practiced freely while the sectarian religious groups were operating mostly underground, but were rarely, (if ever) persecuted.
While women enjoyed equal rights and equal pay, what they lacked was control over their body and the choice to decide the size of their families.
In his megalomania, Ceausescu wanted to be the leader of a great nation and for him, great meant big. His goal was to bring the population of Romania to 25 millions within a few years.
Around 1968 Ceausescu declared abortions illegal and, ignoring economic difficulties, he encouraged women to have at least 4 children promising (and giving) material support for their upbringing.
This irrational decision claimed the lives of thousands of women who were forced to seek illegal abortion and created what was to become the Romanian tragedy; the world witnessed the heartbreaking fate of many Romanian children, innocent victims of substandard orphanages. An entire nation was unjustly blamed for the madness of a single man. For a more complete picture of this outrages imposition, please see the link below to my hub “The Romanian tragedy”
Communism promoted the rights of minorities (especially people of German and Hungarian origins) and those groups had their own representatives in government positions as well as schools and cultural institutions in their own language. Tensions did exist and forms of discrimination, at an individual level, were happening from both sides.
Just like beauty, truth is also in the eye of the beholder and it seems to have more faces than the one usually presented to the world; make-up and all.
Contrary to general beliefs, a certain freedom of speech, disguised as humor, was well spread and never persecuted. In fact, it is said that political jokes, as means to vent frustrations, were actually lunched by security agents.
Now that hopefully you have an overall clearer idea about the communist era in Romania, let’s end this presentation on a lighter note and I hope you will enjoy some of the most popular jokes:
At a meeting with his advisers, Ceausescu is asking some questions:
Q: how do we improve the health care system?
A: we prescribe more pain killers and a healthy dose of Prozac
Q: how could we solve the housing shortage?
A: we give people passports
Q: why are we building supermarkets 3 miles apart?
A: to avoid food lines from intersecting and to make people feel less crowded while waiting for supplies.
Q: how could we raise the living standards of working people?
A: we could cut the export of food by 90%, cut the export of consumer goods by 80%, and increase the export of survival skills by 100%
Q: what could we do to prevent people from listening to Free Europe and America’s Voice radio stations?
A: we switch radio cables and allow the broadcast only in Russian which few people know and all Romanians hate.
Q: what could we do to appease the general discontent?
A: encouraging people to come up with political jokes should do it.
A Final Note
As most of you know, I am writing a series about “Romania the Beautiful” and I hope you will be back to read some of my future hubs.
This particular hub will not be part of the series, since I feel strongly there was little beauty and even less joy during those long years of communist imposition.
Thank You all for supporting my efforts.
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I saw a movie called The Unbearable Lightness of Being (saw it several times actually) and though it was about the Prague Summer rather than about Romania, I felt the pain of communism's iron glove. The movie which you may have seen explored the lives of a doctor and his lovers which were suddenly interrupted by the Russian tanks. The movie went to black and white while all the Czech citizens banded together to protest the onslaught. All their little problems were suddenly one big common problem. It is something we know very little of here in our sanctuary....
I am thrilled Mr.Happy that you are the first to comment since just like me, you know the sad reality from inside and lived the failed experiment. It is time for others to know and make up their own minds about the pros and contas of two different system that are affecting the lives of millions
Hello Poet,
The movie you are refering to is about the soviet invasion of Checoslovachia. Fortunately for us, Romania was never invaded, but we did suffer the brutal influence of the soviet boot
Absolutely fascinating piece of work. Nothing is ever that clear and black and white realities really are best represented by shades of grey. Given all of this, can I assume you choose our imperfect system? Rated awesome.
I rated it awesome too.. Petra, my father is from Cuba and like Romania, Cuba was never invaded but the brutal influence was there and he has not been back since the late 50's...
I am disappointed.
Many people in Europe were brainwashed and conditioned to live in the jail. If somebody is in the jail it does not mean he has a freedom. It is typical for prison to get better and then worse again. I lived in my best life time in communistic Czechoslovakia still we were in jail with electric bob-wire bordering the West.
Another comment if I could make is that communists had already 15 Perestroika’s fooling West then they (fools politician) bailed them out and then after Soviets kick USA in the b. Excuse me for my French.
Pres. Regan has high rating in my book: He was clear: Communism is evil empire; he introduced "star-war" program and Chernobyl scared soviets to death. There is nothing great about Gorbachev as any others communists.
I could say more but for now it's enough.
Dear POP,
At the time I made my decision I did NOT know 2 essential things: A) that the communism will fall within 10 years and B) that the American system was so very far from perfect. I DID completely bought into the propaganda of the illigal radio stations I was listening to at the time.
It took me years to face reality since I refused to look truth in the face and accept the sadness of it.
As you may know I paid a very high price for leave Romania and so did my only son who was left behind
Hello again Poet,
I know what you mean and through your father you did have a first hand experience
Hello Vladimir,
Sorry to hear you do NOT want to see and hear the truth. It is sad when people choose only one slise of the truth and ignore the rest of the pizza. Tell me you did not get a free education? Tell me more about how much it cost to go to school in ANY capitalistic countries. Tell me about the cost of attending cultural event. Tell me about unemployment and maternity leave.
Have you ever heard of waterboarding as "enhanced interogation" in a communist prison? I have not and my Father was a political detenee for years. I never said communism did not have shorthcomings and did not oppress its peopel; I believe I gave a well balanced account and looked at both sides of the coin.
Before you talk about prisons and other injustices and infringments on human right, please read the Patriotic Act; TWICE!
I know. But we are not talking about USA but about communism.
I have different view of USA. We do not have Capitalism as some may assume. We have the mixture of socialistic capitalism. Then people do not know what is right or wrong. People then hate capitalism and not socialism within. It is deception. USA is target and programming by socialistic garbage for almost 100 years. The crisis we have is artificially made. Then the socialist want to impress us they will fix it. Today we have communists who are billionaires. It does not count right. They wants other will pay for everything, not them. Head of soviet state owned everything. Of course we did not starve, but it is all what we need? Are we animals?
The point is the communism is never good, just evil. It is materialistic loving money and power hungry collective.
Now you are challenging me my friend.
Yes I had free schooling I must work hard to get great grades. I am not gifted as you are. But it was only part founded by state.
Besides the point is, before I escaped almost lost my life by swimming across Adriatic Sea for three hrs I work for 6 years as a slave for $50 a month. It is like in third world below $2 a day. Medical school was 6 years. I did overpay them plenty.
Is it the socialistic paradise they offered?
Additionally, we had free schooling before communists came, I did not have to pay to Drs. either.
What is comparison of water-boarding to thousands dead in New York?
I know well what coin is, we pay to God what is God's and to Caesar what belongs to him.
Vladimir,
We can only evaluate intelligently by comparing the two system with open eyes and open heart leaving aside personal preferences.
I do agrre with you in regards to the man-made deliberately created crises; it come out of GREED and it was encouraged by the fact that there are NO concerquences. How many heads have rolled because of the catastrophic financial disaster? NONE; it is bussiness as usual and fat bonuses as we have seen before.
Hello again Vladimir,
What do you mean your schooling was only partially financed by the government?! That is news to me. ALL communist country had FREE education all the way to a PhD.
I have no doubt you have worked hard for your degree - as you should - my son is working very hard for his PhD, BUT he will be in debt for the rest of his life and so will be his wife.
So you are making a distinction between "casualties of war" looking again at one side of the coin? Are Muslims not God's children as well as the rest of us? Is one American life more precious than the life of a Vietnamese child or one who was born in Laos?
My dad was master carpenter. His huge picture was on square of city as a udernik". Hoping you know what it is. He was hero. That time I was nurse but unable save any money. My dad said all money was taken from me, what I saved for kids education and I am unable to give you any money.
I said I will go study no matter what. I passed exam and was admitted. I lived in mid Slovakia Banska Bystrica. Medical school was available in mid Moravia now Czech republic. I was able to go home only once a year. It was not covered by my stipend. Communists robed my dad from all money he saved. My pans were short like I grew up more in medical school. They were old. My winter coat was very glassy shiny from fabric was gone. I did not have money if I want to go home for Christmas. It was distance by express train for 12 hours travel. Do you think that stipend covered travel from dormitory to faculty and hospital? It was impossible to walk. Could I buy book I loved to read? No, I did not. I was often hungry of course I compensated it. It is not just tuition.
I know that education is expensive here. I was studying 5 more years to defend my specialties. here in US. But today benefit teachers are demanding is enormous as well as employees. My Carol use to work in school system. They had Cadillac health care. Who paid for it? I did. From my taxes!
There are many deceived promoting socialism. But those who knows what evil is, is much worse.
No, anyone is God child unless is born into it. Because we are born on this planet we are not His children. You are not doctor if you are born in Hospital are you? It is wrong presumption that we are children of God. We are children of somebody else. By the way I love Muslim and Jews but I hate religion.
If I would be a carpenter, I would not work so hard in training, but to work with health and life of people one must maximize work and study.
Vladimir, my friend
I never said that life under communism was a walk in the park. Did I talk about forced labor and collectivization? YES I did. Did I talk about scarcity of goods and basic life necessities? YES I did? Did I talk about the long lines to get the daily bread and whatever else the track was going to bring that day? YES I did.
As a student at the University of Bucharest not only did I not pay any tuition, in fact I was getting a monthly “allowance”; maybe not much, but enough to get buy. YES I had to keep my grades up all the time to qualify for it, but that was only fair as far as I am concern.
If we are to bring God into this discussion I already know things are going to get very heated, but I am going to tell you where I stand anyway; I have been raised as a Greek Orthodox Christian and that’s what I am and will always be.
The GOD I know and respect loves all His children, no matter the color, no matter where they were born, no matter what religion they were born into. This is the ONLY God I will ever worship.
A great read Petra. I can see the good bad and ugly in most political systems. I'd like to pick the good bits out of them and start another world. But even then there is the danger of the scales not balancing and then tipping away from a desirable world. Is there such a thing? It's interesting to take a global perspective - stand way back and see what works and where and why - and what doesn't work and where and why. My idealism knows what it wants, but it doesn't match my reality. I guess that's a common experience.
Hello Jewels
Welcome to my site and thank you for reading. I asked the same question time and again, but now I know such thing will never happen as long as humans are in charge of world affairs.
Greed is part of the human nature and so is arrogance. Even when good people get in position of power they lose control of their soul and all their moral values. Power corrupts even the best of us especially because it is lonley at the top and all of the advisers make sure the leader has no idea about what is going on. Sad reality!
I'm late but this is GREAT! It's a great hub hub, I mean. Very well done Petra! You sure seem to be a natural with writing. I know you cross languages and this is easy for me to say. But yes Ma'am. You are a great communicator!
Thank you Micky,
I am glad you liked the information of the hub - since there is little to like about communism. I tried my best and I knew it was going to be controversial; many people, from both sides of the coin - do not want to face the truth and prefer to go through life blindfolded
Ping-pong it is for sure! lol
I still cannot understand why Mr. Vladimir is so in love with this crooked-capitalistic system in the States and is not willing to accept that it has flaws ... I am trying to figure that one out.
Dear Happy,
The sad part is that people can not get past personal experiences and look at the whole picture. The government did not give him enough money to go home for Christmas? Imagine that! They did not give me money for cigarettes either so I should be real mad, right?
Few people have suffered at the hands of communism as much as my family has, but to make it personal and renegate everything that was half way decent about the regime IS absurd.
For you and all interested, please read the hub http://hubpages.com/hub/A-Marked-Family and only then you can understand if I was narrow minded in my presentation
I'm certain, Petra, that you were aware beforehand that your perceptions of communism, socialism and capitalism might not be supported by all your readers. But isn't that one of the blessings of America? The right to free speech, free religion, etc.?
This is a provocative piece of writing and contributed in large part to my Romania-challenged education. Thank you!
Hello my very dear drbj,
I had no doubts that the "hot" subject will stir controversy, but I rarely shy away from such challenges. I tried to present, the best I could, the multiple faces of communism and the way it has changed through the years. I am talking mostly from first hand experience, but I tried NOT to make it personal. Thank you again for helping out with the jokes; I only selected the ones that are supported by the arguments of my presentation.
My goodness Petra,
Yu have stirred up a hornet's nest here! Very insighful information. Brought up in democracy, I cannot comment on the gritty reality of living in a 'Communist' state. Of one thing I feel I am sure, and that is, communism, with a small 'c', is an excellent system, until you introduce the obvious flaw. Yup, the human being. With that one factor, the whole concept, in my opinion is ruined from the start.
Similarly, for example, here in the UK, we have a system where two men, one a beer-bellied drunkard, living on state benefits, and not working has as much say as to who runs the country as a highly trained, motivated, and intelligent professional. The author Neville Shute had an excellent idea, in one of his books. The British constitution was changed to that citizens could attain 7 votes. The first by birthright, another for finishing University, another for spending a longish period of time abroad, another for employing more than say ten people, and so on, up to the total allowed. You see where I am going with this. Essentially, the more value you are to society, and the more wordly experience you have gained, then the greater the influence you have when leaders are chosen, and not just because one of them has promised to increase your unemployment benefits.
Anyway, thank you for all the work you put into this, and allowing us to read an in-depth account of what life was like in Romania during those years.
Alan
Thank you Alan,
for reading this and leaving a comment. If this hub brought enough information to make people think and take another look at their own system, than I did what I intended to do.
As we know there are pros and cons in all systems and everything we do in life, from marriage to the job we hold or the city we live on.
I was not aware of the UK law in terms o voting up to 7 times over; I do believe in one man one vote. Anything short of that is giving additional advantages to the privileged ones. I do understand the idea that informed and educated voters could make better decision, but I also know that the less fortunate may have a an innate intelligence and a lot more common sense than the once who (by whatever reason got to higher positions)
My paternal grandmother was a very simple (in terms of education I mean), but had an acute sense of reality, as opposed to my maternal grandmother who was highly educated and sophisticated, but was a slave of her own prejudice and selfishness. Based on that alone I am having problems with your electoral system.
When we take into consideration the human factor, any and all systems are scrwed - leave it up to the greed and incompetence of politicians blinded by power and there you have it
The flaw with Shute's idea is the same: humans are involved. Those with the most votes would foist the tyranny of the majority upon those lessor fortunate and in the end those who have 2 or less votes will find themselves cut-off from society.
Was it Voltaire who said a Monarchy is preferable to a democracy/republic in that we only have one despot with which to contend instead of hundreds or thousands....
Hello Poet,
Actually it was Plato in his "Republic" - dialogs with Sacrate - that was talking about The Prince who should govern the Republic. It will please you to know that Plato was giving intellectuals and poets preference in terms of ability to be the ideal leaders. If that holds true, the two of us should be in charge of this scrwed up world:-)))
.
BRIBES????? Was such a thing possible in Romania???? I wish I knew when I was there :-)))
Hello dear Greek
I managed to surprise even a well informed person like yourself; now that's what I call a performance ;-)))
That's right Petra because poets are superior human beings and I'm ready to get started right away! First though I want to ask the FBI if aliens really came to New Mexico back in the 1950's....
Dear poet,
so you thought that keeping people in the dark and being creative with the truth was a communist methode limited to dictatorship? How wrong you are; that alone disqualifies you as a potential leader, so go back and write some more poetry...
Ok boss....
Dear Petra - this is a most informative and moving Hub. You have highlighted a "pet" theme of mine - that the evils committed in the name of communism had mostly very little to do with what Karl Marx and his immediate followers were wanting to achieve, which in brief was more justice for those excluded by economic means from power over their own lives.
The communist ideal was perverted by leaders who were psychopaths like Stalin and your own Ceausescu. They were people who became obsessed with their own power and forgot the ordinary workers. What they did was not communism or socialism, but authoritarian dictatorships which had more in common with Hitler than Marx.
I'm not saying that communism has failed - I think that it has seldom if ever really been tried in a fair and open way. It has been used and perverted by people with evil intentions.
And as you point out the West has not done so well either - the McCarthy witchhunts in the 1950s in the US used many of the totalitarian tactics like guilt by association that the so-called communists used.
Your desription of life under the rule of the psychopath is very moving and I have to say has many echoes of what the ordinary, mostly black, people suffered under apartheid in South Africe from 1948 to 1994. The apartheid government, like Hitler, was vehemently anti-communist while using similar tactics to those used by the so-called communist dictators - imprisonment without trial, torture, manipulation of the media, "disappearings" and murder.
Thanks again - I feel really grateful to you for sharing this information and for being so fair.
Love and peace
Tony
After all we are friend, are we?
You are special person. I really do not have anything against Petra. I do love you. I just could not resist to comment on your hub. You are great writer. I just felt that going and study good on devil is not proper. Thats all.
I thank you so much Tony,
I feel that you are one of the few who really read every sentence and every word I said; for that I thank you again.
My father was a prisoner of war in a soviet camp and upon his return he said repeatedly that the way communism was distorted by Lenin, Stalin and the rest of them, made it into a complete joke that has nothing to do with the initial intent of Marx. My father also compared communism to Christianity in a theoretical sense of justice and equality, pointing out the way religious institutions and personal greed and incompetence of the clergy ruined the initial meaning.
I believe no system will ever be close to being just and fair as long as it is run by humans (with all their faults, from greed and arrogance to incontrollable desire for absolute power). I was not exaggerating when I said that the so called American democracy is not much better; enough to read the Patriotic Act or go back to the McCarty era.
Why is it so hard for people to see the similarities when they are so evident and scream so loud? I just don’t get it. Is the need to feel special and superior stronger than the evidence? Is the entire world wrong and the only one that sees the “light” is America?
Glad you come around Poet
Hello again Vladimir,
I am glad you understand that we may have different opinions, but we still can be friends and respect each other.
We do tend to judge most things according to personal expiriences and I have more than enough painful memories from my childhood. However, I thank God for giving me the strenght to raise above personal anger and try to be fair; communism had some "almost good" policies, "mostly bad" practices and a lot of "in between" accomplishments.
Petra,
Could you speak out as you so eloquently do now behind the Iron Curtain? Publically? On the Internet?
What can I say? Many people hold opinions based on their own prejudices. I'm one. It is good to get some honest appraisals from someone who experienced it first hand. It does amaze me Petra how you can be so fair to a system that injured your family so much. You have a much more generous soul than me.
Cristopher dear,
As I told Vladimir a few moments ago, we should not be blinded by personal experiences to the point where we are unable or unwilling to see the whole picture.
I will forever despise the despicable practices that subjected my father to detantion and physical punishment and I won't forget that both my grandparents were destituts after the communism confiscated their fortunes. My chidhood was grately affected by such injustice and brutal abuse, HOWEVER I (and everybody else) got a FREE and high - solid education from the system. That should not be ignored. We never worried about medical bills; that also should not be ignored.
Being just, honest and fair is what I fought all my life for; I am not better than anyone else, I just try harder...
My friend, the Poet
I left Romania in 1979 and Gore have not invented the internet yet:-)))
Contrary to general believe we did speak freely; we did not go into a public place scraming at the top of our lungs that the president was an idiot and a criminal; that we did not do. What good did it do me and others that we said in a loud voice that Bush was an idiot and a criminal?
I consider the "politically correct" semantically aberant phrase to be a shameful limitation of free speech
That's classic... Al Gore... I like that...
It did no good but at least you weren't arrested. I know some liberals who posted many things about Bush that over the years that were very aggressive and they are still there posting away and defending Obama.
PCness is the bane of truth....
Poet,
Nobody was arrested in Romania (after 1960) for speaking up their minds. Try saying anything that may be interpreted as discrimination (whether by blacks, Jews, gays, etc) and see how far your professional career goes. Look up the McCarty era and then come back and talk to me again.
I hear you....
You first... I'm chicken....
Truly fascinating read Petra,and I totally agree with your statement 'all governments are designed to protect the ones in power and to do whatever it takes to perpetuate their privileges.'
It's great to read a view from one who knows the reality of life under such a regime.
You have really whetted my appetite for reading more of your hubs.Great work.
Well done, indeed Petra - I think so many of us Americans forget that some of our oldest roots go back to communism and the people who fought for life in a new world. I think it's vital that we honor them by knowing more of the history of where they came from and more about the lives that they lived.
Fascinating and so well written!
Nicely informative and well balanced - I especially like the 'boring grey' - so many people think in black and white and so see nothing at all. Thanks for good info well presented.
You are so funny Poet, but if that's you want, I will lead the way.
Hello Itakins,
Thank you for readind this hub and leaving a comment. I am glad you appreciate the gray areas - since there are so many - in all aspects of life. Too many people are color blind and can't tell the difference, but in reality all political regimes are the same and far from fair of just.
I will be honored if you could take the time to read more of my true stories
Hello Akirchner,
While there are a lot of people who recently came to America from communist contries and made a great contribution - because they all have very high education and professional standards - there is NO WAY anyone can talk about "American roots go back to communism" as you said in your comment.
I hope you will come back and clarify your comment, because it is totally inaccurate and most confusing.
Hello China Man,
If your name is any indication of where you are coming from, than I suppose you may relate to this hub better than most. And you are totally right - life is mostly a gray area and seeing it in black and white as well as pink and green is a self imposed limitation.
No Petra. There is nothing good on the devil. What ever appeared good is false image. Read about Illuminati (crib of communism), Marx and so on. The social "justice" is only cover up, to achieve goals.
I have a hub about Marx, devil worshiper.
It has nothing to do with my personal experiences. I wanted people to see and not be deceived.
Agape love.
What can I say Vladimir?
You keep on saying that communism was evil – devil and you close the door for any discussion before considering the arguments. While communism comes close to Christianity because of its theoretical intent of equality for all – which has never been applied in practical terms, capitalism is not much better since it is based on greed and the principal of the supremacy of the fittest.
Both systems are faulty and that is a fact; perfection is pure utopia and that is also a fact. Changing your mind and asking you to look at both sides of the coin is impossible and that is also a fact. Asking me to be narrow-minded is just as impossible and no less of a fact
Hey beautiful... my Dad thinks a bit like Vladimir. He is very resistent to anything that shines a postive light on Castro and Communism. He understands the free medicine and free education but feels they are not worth the loss of freedom. I think he believes communism to be so evil that it is dangerous to promote anything connected to it because it is so tempting to many who believe in the idea of universal egalitarianism.
Did you feel free in Romania?
Mr. Poet, let me clarify some things here. I am in a position to do so because I lived through the dictatorial regime in Romania which Mrs. Petra spoke about.
It was not a communist regime. It was a pretend-to-be communist regime. Communism does not talk about losing your freedoms. It does not talk about dictators and secret service guys who kidnapp people and throw them in political prisons. Mao, Ceausescu, Stalin ... they all hijacked the idea of communism. I believe if it wasn;t for the US embargo on Cuba we could have seen a successful communist regime but singled-out and left for dead, Cuba could not do much on its own so it closed itself up in order to simply survive and in order not to sell itself out to the States as was the case in the 1950s.
We didn;t feel free in Romania because there was a brutal dictator in power. Again, communism does not promote dictators. People don;t understand what communism is because all the attempts at having a communist state have failed. Does that mean it cannot be possible? I don't think so. Logic doesn't flow that way.
Poet, my dear,
Tell your father that freedom is a state of mind and there are NO chains that can stop it - just like NO Walls (Berlin, Jerusalem or California) could ever stop people from going after their dreams.
Did I feel free in Romania? Yes, Sir, I did and I also feel free here in US. I feel free because I chose to be free, because I will not let prejudice, greed and envy spoil my soul. I am free because I have control over my mind and I learned how to control my emotions.
Should you have more questions, do not hasitate to ask:-)))
Hello again Happy,
Your statement about dictators kindnapping the idea of communism IS BRILLIANT.
That's exactly what happened; a great idea that failed because inadequate people with criminal minds turned and twisted it into something else. I really appreciate your comment and I believe it made all my points more clear and much easier to understand.
Thank you Happy for such great contribution and please DO come back to follow the debate
I was thinking free in the sense that we did not have freedom to leave the country and travel. The way you looked at freedom is a much better perspective, Petra. I am now thinking of Stephen Hawking who has no ability to move being paralyzed from head to toe but as he says his mind explores the univers. He goes nowhere really but he is everywhere.
Thank you for the nice words.
Hello Happy,
The impossibility to travel was without a doubt a great limitation imposed upon us, however it gave us a chance to travel inside our minds and souls, to discover dimentions that the "free and the braves", don't even know exist.
Petra,
Where does freedom end? Should there be a limitation? If you cannot travel then can your mind conceive of another way? Maybe you can because you have an extraordinary mind but not all people are like you. It appears you have the ability to make the best of any situation but why be willing to give up the POSSIBILITY of a better situation?
So here we go again,
Just don't turn into your father or another Vladimir my dear friend, ok:-)))
I happen to know a lot a people who have traveled the world and understood NOTHING; they got on and out of a train (or plain), they visited places, but could not remember anything, because nothing has thouched them intellectually or emotionally; nothing, nothing at all!
Have you seen the movie "If it is Tuesday it must be Belgium?". If you did not, go rent it
Here we go... here we go... that's right... I like to ask questions...
I'm not turning into anyone. My father and I disagree about Cuba... he's old school and wants the embargo to remain in place. I told him it's been 50 years. Castro won. Let's try something new. He also wanted us to keep Elian in the US instead of returning him to his Father. I told him he should be with his dad and my dad said "Mark, you don't understand; in Cuba the state is the parent."
I just said ok, let's open another bottle of wine and smoke a Cuban cigar and talk about something else...
Yes Mark,
you love to ask questions and I love to answer them, so let's open that bottle of wine and keep on talking.
The Elian story was a great opportunity for both Castro and US to make a point at the expences of an innocent boy who was traumatized by an experiance that will mark him for life. For 10 FBI agents to go in a private home with guns to "recup" a scared 9 years old boy is an outrage, just as it was an outrage to deport a woman a few years ago and force her to abandon her American born child.
I don't know if Castro won, but Elian belongs with his father and for the US Congress to even get involved in such matter (and be humiliated by the outcome) only proves once again the hypocrisy I was talking about in my hub
Ask more if you want to know more, dear friend
I am not going argue any more, Petra. You know everything. But I will tell you this: In communism foundation is bad. The same time, now, we do not have any capitalism but socialistic capitalism. Materialism is growing with money hungry people, everyone is mad on each other and so on. We do not have any more republic, because we are not able to keep it. Republic is system under God and democracy is junk mob.
Why to defend system which is basically wrong?
Return to God is only way.
Hello again Vladimir
I always believed in God, but it is He who allowed people like Stalin, Hitler and Bush to exist and to commit crimes against humanity. God did not make socio-economic or political systems; people did.
Don't you think it is contradiction?
I am not sure I understand your question, Vladimir. Could you please elaborate? Thank you
Sorry for coming at the end of the market, but I also see that you contradict yourself, Petra. On the one hand you blame God for allowing bad people to rule. On the other hand you say that not God but people made all the mess.
I would agree with the latter. People make bad choices.
Just one joke from the past:
A Russian says: "Ha, they boast in America that they have freedom of speech, but they say we don't have freedom of speech in Russia! So what, if they can stand up and say that American president is a jerk and they won't be arrested! I also can stand up and say that American president is a jerk, and I will not be arrested either!"
Ha, right! But try to stand up and say that Soviet president is a jerk! It was direct pass to trouble.
I do not have question, just comment: You said: "it is He (God) who allowed people like Stalin, Hitler and Bush to exist and to commit crimes against humanity..." Blaming God allows...
"God did not make socio-economic or political systems; people did", you blame people.
My comment would be: God gave us free will and He does not allow anything bad. He is not dictator. He gave to Adam authority to rule. He protects His Word and the same time our freedom. It is either church or uninformed people who blame God for everything.
Hello different,
The market is very much open and you are very welcome to join in.
You see it at a contradiction, but I do not; here is why: religions attribute the creation of men to God and everything God did is perfect. As we know, people are not perfect - far from it. A just God would have not allowed so many bad things to happen and so many innocent people to die.
Do I consider God to be responsable for all the tragedies in the world? No. I believe that His imperfect creatures - people of all faiths are responsable for their own misery and the misery of otheres
Where am I contradicting myself?
Hello again Vladimir,
As I said to "different" a few minutes ago, I do not blame God, but I question His sense of justice and fairness, His love for all His children. I also have a problem with the explanation of "free will", which I do not remember reading in the Bible.
So, in one hand we give praise to God for everything that is good in our lives, but when bad things happen we just say that is a consequence of "free will" - it sounds like double standard to me.
I have another question as well; why would God let millions die in natural disasters - is He indifferent to the suffering of millions that just happen to be in the wrong place? And, please do not tell me it was God's punishment for their sins.
We cannot be slaves of letters. The letters kill. The spirit gives the life.
One person said: “I never find in the Bible God gave the free will to the man.” You are not first one.
Deuteronomy 30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live:
If is it not free will, what is it?
I've wondered lately if a choice between paradise or eternal damnation (burning in flames with man begging God to let him die as Bob Dylan said) can truly produce an act of free will...
It seems many of us are not impressed with the choice and live our life by choosing (c) None of the above....
Hi Vladimir,
I do understand that the "free will" we have is not limited to whatever road I choose to take today in my way to work; it is a question of moral values we choose or not to follow.
It was acctually the second question I was more interested in getting an answer to - why is God allowing innocent people to suffer for no fault of their own - floods, eartquakes, hurricans, droughts, etc
Hi Mark,
the question of "free will" is being interpreted in many different ways and choosing (c) - none of the above is also a viable possibility
Many people choose the wrong thing knowing there are consequences... drugs, infidelity, drinking and driving... humans have a tremendous capacity to deny their own mortality..... it seems they/we/me can pretend many things do not exist.... so we indulge ouselves.
Indulging is also a choice, Mark
Choice (D) - PARTY!
YOU GOT IT! bring the wine, Mark and the dessert is on me
I can handle that....
Very interesting. I always wondered how socialism appeared to the ordinary non-political citizen. Did they feel the weight of the state bearing down on them in a very personal way. Not in Romania from what you say but I wonder about other parts of Eastern Europe and, of course, Russia.
Very interesting article, Mrs. Vlah, being one of the few Romanian teens, on this site, I feel that it's my duty to say "Multumesc"(thanks) for writing great articles regarding our country, it's history, and the reality of the communist regime in Romania.
Sa traiti(bine:D)!
Hello noelaspill,
Welcome to my site and thank you for your comment. People feel things in different ways according to their own personalities or interests. The general sense was that of "benevolent" and uninvited control, but not exactly oppression I would say.
My husband also grow up in an ex-comunist country (Bulgaria - which was much more in line with the strict soviet communist philosophy) and his experiance was similar, but also different than mine, and if you ask Vladimir, it seems that his communist experiance is from another planet.
Hello Syra,
Good to see a young Romanian on HP. I am writing a series about Romania because it seems to me that whatever little bit of information people have about our country is either distorted by Hollywood movies or by the media in general (orphans, etc).
My intent is to focus on the possitive aspects and that's why I did not include this hub in the series, but since it is still part of our history I could not ignore the facts and the effects of this period. The history of any country is written and re-writen a few times over and the same facts are being presented in different ways. I tried to be as balanced as I could and look at things from different prospectives, presenting both sides of the coin.
This is a hub every person in the world should read and could learn a lot from it. You have a wonderful way of putting reality and truth into words. Bless you. Thank you so much for writing this. I enjoyed it from beginning to end, I love learning history from people who experienced it.
Petra you never cease to amaze me. Each hub gets more and more informative about your country and I believe everyone is in agreement that you document the history so well. Politics has never been my forte or much interest to me. I find that no matter what power of government is in power they are there mostly to stuff their pockets with as much wealth as they can before being booted out of office.And might I ad at great expense in many cases to human suffering.
However when you bring it to the table like you do, it sparks my interest. I certainly feel you are in command of the English language than many others and admire you for your courage to speak out on all the topics you choose to write on. Thank you for this historical share on The Way Communism Affected Romania. I learned a lot from this hub. Peace and hugs
Why people suffer?
Man and earth is under control of evil - Satan. All is under the curse.
If people will be able to get out, protection would be provided by God.
Hello Babbi
I very much appreciate your generous compliment and I am glad to hear that people find my hub interesting. I tried to present fact and stay away from my opinions or personal experiences (which would have turned this into a bitter rant) Thank you so much for reading this and leaving a comment
Hello Ken,
Glad to see you made it to my hub and thank you for the compliment. Most peole try to stay away from politics and, although I understand their reasons, I believe such desingagement plays right in the hand of the ones who would prefer to deal with uninformed and easy to manipulate masses.
I for one could not "free" myself of what I consider to be a civic duty and I will keep on being here just as vocal as I was back in Romania. Would that change anything? Most probably not, but I need to be true to myself.
Dear Vladimir,
I know you are a strong believer in the goodness of God and I admire you for that. The Bible has so many interpretations and contradictions it makes my head spin; just look at the Old and New Testament.
If Satan is in charge of billions, than he is a very busy guy and, with all due respect, God is taking long vacations.
The Bible is easiest Book to understand who is born of God. Otherwise not. Opinions does not help. Old Testament was written for natural people and dealt with the flesh, curbed the sin to avoid destruction. We needed it to preserve faith without this nothing can help us. New Testament was written for new creation, new man. It addressed spirit man.
Opinions really spin the head. Have a good night. With agape love.
Well, let's see. Communist countries killed 90 million of their own citizens to achieve "Social Justice." USA: none. Communist countries put tens of millions into Gulags or reducation camps for political thought, speech or writings. USA: none. Communist countries produced only a censored government media. USA: I've got 900 channels—if the government is running them all that is a helluva big secret bureaucracy nobody knows about. In communist countries: bread lines everywhere. USA: the most incredible array of food ever seen by human beings in supermarkets everywhere. Communist countries had elections in which you voted publicly in front of party members: do you love our leader? Yes or no? (No gets you the gulag). USA: I vote for maybe sixty elected officials every two years by secret ballot. Communist countries: built walls to keep people from escaping. USA: come and go as you please. We can't even agree to build a wall to keep invaders OUT.
The same thing existed in both places? That is more than a bad opinion. It is insanity. I guess it makes me wonder: what are you doing here in this terrible place? Are you a communist agent here to foment unrest?
Answer this and I'll know for sure where you are coming from: do North Koreans and South Koreans live under the same system of government? Have the same living conditions?
For you James to ask if I am a communist is not only insulting, it proves your bias as a brainwashed American and your total ignorance in political realities.
According to you communism killed 90 millions (which is an exaggeration) while US has killed none – how convenient to forget the American Indians who have been exterminated, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Laos and Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, just to mention a few. Do the math, James and get back to me.
You talking about the Gulags, but it seems to me that you forgot the Japanese Americans – very convenient ones again.
You talking about elections and I agree with you that they were manipulated, BUT not to any lesser extent than the ones we have here in the US where the single vote counts for nothing while the corporations are buying their candidates right and left. I will call that big progress and big accomplishment, more than enough reason to be proud.
Yes communist countries went to lots of depravations and suffering and I said that loud and clear. I also said they provided FREE education (at exceedingly high standards) and FREE medical care for all. Can you say the same about US?
Both systems have faults and that’s exactly what I said, no more, no less.
If you want to choose only the slice of pizza you like best and ignore the rest, it is your right to do so, but before you doubt my loyalty to the principles in which this country was built (NOT the way they have been applied) please think again and make sure you DO NOT get drunk on pure water
P.S. James,
Just in case you did not know, I came to US in 1979 as a political refugee; while awaiting my entry visa, the American Embassy in Bucharest investigated me and my entire family and determined that we all have been persecuted as political dissidents.
I have no way of knowing what specific sacrifice you went through to claim the right of being an American citizen, but rest assured my sacrifices were many.
Total ignorance of political realities? You have no idea who you are talking to, my dear. I have read thousands of books on history and politics. I have many friends who are now Americans from behind the Iron Curtain—NONE of them feel as you do, I can tell you that. Your views are shocking. To equate America with murderous, failed communist regimes and conclude: same thing, different label.
I've done the math. I said 90,000,000 of its own citizens killed. Is your knowledge of history that 90,0000,000 American Indians were killed? And they were not American citizens, anyway. Hiroshima was a damned good thing. Saved millions of lives. You equate the living conditions in Japanese internment camps with the Gulag Archipelago? Unbelievable! Those Japanese were not worked to death. Education is free in America. So is health care. You want to compare health care in America with that in the USSR or China? Really?
But wy did you go through sacrifices to come here when it is just "the same as the USSR with a different label?" And when you found that out, why didn't you go back? I know this: tens of millions of people emigrated to America in the 20th century. How many emigrated to communist countries? A few dozen? I think the world has voted with its feet. I think you are ungrateful to your hosts, my dear. I mean that respectfuly. If I were you, I would be grateful that you can post this Hub and not have the secret police at your door the same night.
Petra - just had to come back over to this Hub to see how things were getting on! Seems they're getting on pretty warmly!
I just love statements like the one James makes here, that Hiroshima was a "damned good thing". "Saved millions of lives" - how could one possibly know that? Japan was already a spent force when the bombs were dropped and they were dropped not for military but propaganda purposes.
And the deaths of American Indians can be discounted - they were not American citizens and so were not important?
The US has killed millions - I wouldn't like to get into specifics about how many - but look at the way the US meddled in the affairs of many African states when their "interests" were at stake, and didn't meddle in others when different sets of "interests" were at stake. The current mess in the DRC is the direct result of the inept and criminal meddling by the US and the CIA in the Congo back in the 60s. How many millions have died there in the 50 years since? How many continue to be raped, disfigured and murdered there? To a large degree because the US saw fit to remove the one person who could have led that sad country to a better future (not that he was a saint either, but at least he had the support of most of the people). Lumumba was deliberately killed by the CIA and that rapacious monster Mobutu installed in his place. Mobutu was supported by the US as a "bulwark against communism" for years while he bled his country and his people, stashing a fortune away in overseas bank accounts. A fine, upstanding capitalist and democrat he was!
How many slaves died? How many Vietnamese died? How many Iraqis died (and continue to die)?
No the US does not have clean hands and to use the excesses of the megalomaniacs who ruled the so-called "communist" countries to rubbish communism is a deliberate and mischievous misunderstanding.
In fact the whole attempt to paint one country or system as better or worse than another is a futile "kitchen debate" - all countries have both good and bad. We just have to keep the light of freedom and dignity going in whatever circumstances. Not always an easy task, but then freedom is not easy - we have to constantly be on the lookout for attacks on it. One of the best defenses for freedom is freedom of information - when that gets curtailed then we are in trouble.
As Camus said in "Bread and Freedom": "...freedom is not a gift received from a State or a leader but a possession to be won every day by the effort of each and the union of all."
Keep writing, my dear friend, and shining the light of reason and good will around you. I love it!
Love and peace
Tony
Hello James,
Choosing to ignore reality is just as bad or maybe worse than being ignorant; you prove to do that with ease. Why would anyone lose any sleep over the atrocities that America has engaged in its 200 short years of history?
I hope you can be proud of YOUR answer: American Indians were not American citizens, so the hell with them. Hiroshima was “a damn good thing”, so we got the green light to keep on killing. Cambodia and Laos was just in the way and was inconveniently interfering with our interest in South Asia; bombing them out of existence was the Christian thing to do. Japanese Americans were not being worked to death in concentration camps and all they were forced to do was just to take a Club Med vacation; good to know!
Just as it is good to know that the McCarty era never existed and it was nothing more than a communist propaganda to discredit the ever perfect American system. I am sure you have a good explanation for the Patriot Act and I am convinced that Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo (both of which put any communist prison to shame) do not give you any nightmares; why should it?
Glad to know that you are one of the proud Americans convinced that we did the rest of the world favors after favors while interfering with their culture and imposing our values. And all of it in the name of helping them, because we Americans know best and most importantly we did it out of the goodness of out heart; never, ever did we have an economic or strategic interest in ANY of the areas we got involved in.
I don’t expect you to agree with Oscar Wilde who said: “America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadency never experiencing civilization”. It is the way most of the world feels, but hey, the world is made of 90% non American citizens, so let’s kill them all and get it over with.
Just before I go, let me remind you that this hub was about the way communism affected Romania and it has nothing to do with URSS, Korea or China. If you can take off your horse blinders for a minute, you will see that I talk about “the Almost Good, the Mainly Bad and everything in between”; it does not get any fairer than that for the ones that are ready to look at it with an open mind.
Hello dear Tony,
Talking sense into the ones who refuse to get their ears unplugged is futile. It is so much better to be in a perpetual state of denial, so we can sleep better and keep on dreaming “we are the best and the greatest”. We need that to compensate for our insecurities and we need that to justify our questionable actions. Denial is good; it puts the mind to rest and the conscience at ease
The world should better understand once and for all that America is God’s gift to humanity and anyone who sees it differently is just an envious poor and lost soul. Do not ever forget; we love winners and we will do whatever it takes to win, even if that means to step on everybody else’s right to exist or to believe in a different set of morals.
And since we are on this subject, the world better be warned; we have the atomic bomb and will not hesitate to use it again, so please make up your mind and, if you know what’s best for you, get out of the way. Fast!
What else can I say Tony? It is a charade and it will go on until it doesn’t. Empires fell one after another and America is next. As I said more than once before, it is not even a question of IF, it is a question of WHEN. In the meantime, let’s have another glass of water and pretend it is Champaign at its finest.
Tony— Japan was a spent force? They still had 800,000 of their best troops and vowed that every one of them would have to be killed before they would surrender. They had a population of 75 million and they vowed that every one of them would fight to the death before they would surrender. Not to mention the casualties on the Allied side, which I am sure are unimportant to you. The lowest estimate I have ever seen is that six million people would have died in the battle toforce Japan to surrender. Some say 80 million. In war the object is for your enemy to surrender. They surrendered after the second bomb was dropped. Object accomplished at a minimum loss of life—no matter what America haters say.
I never said the deaths of Indians were not important. I am 1/4 Indian myself! I said that communist regimes killed 90,000,000 OF THEIR OWN CITIZENS—not an enemy they were at war with—for political reasons. There were only 4 million Indians in America, they were not citizens, most killed were killed accidently by smallpox, and they were killed before communism existed, which is what we are talking about: the 20th century.
This is not to say their lives weren't important. Every life is important. It is to say it is a poor analogy: vastly less deaths; not rounded up and massacred but killed in battles or by smallpox; not a country killing its own citizens; and the wrong century.
I am aware of the proxy wars in Africa. What you fail to mention is that they were started by the Soviets, in an attempt to collectivize Africa. Who started the war in Viet Nam? Communist. Do you know who Ho Chi Minh is?
In the Congo: Concerned that the United Nations force sent to help restore order was not helping to crush the secessionists, Lumumba turned to the Soviet Union for assistance, receiving massive military aid and about a thousand Soviet technical advisers in six weeks. The U.S. government saw the Soviet activity as a maneuver to spread communist influence in Central Africa.
This is extremely regretable but it hardly is the same thing as killing 90,000,000 of your own citizens.
Then you mention the light of freedom. Where exactly was the light of freedom in a single communist country?
The best estimates are that 40,000,000 of its own people were killed by the USSR; 70,000,000 by Chairman Mao. There is no analogy to this in American history.
For you to claim that Guantanamo is akin to the Gulag is ridiculous. Millions of people in forced labor, no food, hard labor in threadbare clothes in freezing cold in one, dropping dead like flies; how many in Guantanamo are in forced labor? How many have died there? They eat like kings! They havea menu specific to their religion. They are well clothed and warm.
McCarthey was absolutely correct. Since the USSR fell files, such as the Verona Papers, have come out that show he was right: there were communist spies in the US government and in Hoolywood and other places working for the USSR.
And yes, you are right: America has been the greatest force for good in the world of any nation in the history of the earth. America is God's gift to humanity. That is a fact.
I will let Tony answer you since your comment is addressed to him and I am sure he knows very well who Ho Chi Minh was just as well as the rest of us.
James,
Sure America is God’s gift to humanity; who would dare to think otherwise?
America’s clean hands brought peace and prosperity to the world, it gave the uninformed a standard of living they never dreamed about and, by personal example, helped heal the wounds of history; the Smithsonian built a museum in memory of the exterminated American Indians and it is in the process of building one dedicated to the African Americans. Who can ask for more?
We made “reparations”, just by building a museum and made sure NEVER to acknowledge ANY wrong doing. As I said, denial is good and it seems to be the daily bread for some.
History, as we know, is written by the victors and being creative with the truth is nothing new; it takes years before things are being sort out, but eventually they are coming to the surface; oil and water have a way of not mixing well, no matter of the effort put into the process.
Interesting Hub, Petra - it was nice to hear your views. I have many Romanian friends here and they have similar views of the communist regime - some good points, but they were vastly outweighed by the bad!
@James - I like the US and believe that it has generally been a force for good in the world. However, this does not mean that it is untainted - US administrations have committed some foul acts throughout the 20th century.
Ask any Greek about the CIA-backed fascist regime, where the US removed a democratically elected candidate and installed the colonels. They routinely used torture and murder against political dissidents, all in the name of stopping the spread of communism (Despite the fact that Andreas Papandreou, the overthrown leader, was no leftist).
President Johnson's response to the Greek ambassador who expressed concern:
"Fuck your parliament and your constitution."
So much for the 'Light of Freedom!' This is the problem - people in the world simply do not see the US in the same way as you do, often with justification. The 'Light of Freedom' only seems to apply to Americans and screw everybody else.
Many people see the US in shades of grey rather than simple black or white, good vs evil. Greeks have long memories and are vehemently anti-American because of this shameful period in history.
I will stress that this hatred is directed against the US government, not the people (US academics were instrumental in pressurizing Johnson to prevent the execution of Papandreou).
I am British and I am fully aware of the atrocities committed by my country. I do not try to make excuses or deflect blame by claiming that the other side is 'worse.' Evil is evil, wherever it is committed, and Britain and the US have blood on their hands, too. Tony Blair, for one, Thatcher and her friend, Pinochet, are others ;)
Thank you Sufidreamer,
I am sure I am not the only Romanian willing to see both sides of the coin when it comes to what communism was and what was not. It may be hard for some to understand and accept that every system has good parts and bad ones; ignoring the gray area and seeing things in black and white is a sign of limitation or worse.
I totally agree with your view on Greece’s specific situation and the catastrophic effect of CIA intervention in domestic affairs. What else is new? America feels it has the green light when it comes to getting involved in anyone else’s business.
Sufi— There is no doubt that no government, country, or individual person is without sin. Of course, we meddled where we shouldn't have; of course the Indians and Africans got a raw deal—from Americans and even more so from Europeans before there was an America. You are absolutely right that it is not black or white by any means. What incensed me was this stanza:
"After living for 30 years in the deep “Hell” of communism and another 30 years in the “Paradise” of the American democracy, one thing became painfully loud and clear; called by different names, political regimes are all the same."
And that is simply a terrible thing to say. I have laid out my evidence. I got no answer about North and South Korea. My only point is this: everybody is flawed1we are only human. BUT: Communism is by far the worst evil to ever occur to mankind. Capitalism is the greatest system to ever occur to mankind. They are so opposite that to call them the same is to create a world in your head that does not exist anywhere else. Even Marx said:
“The bourgeoisie [Capitalism] has been the first to show what man’s activity can bring about. It has accomplished wonders far surpassing Egyptian pyramids, Roman aqueducts, or Gothic cathedrals. The bourgeoisie draws all nations into civilization. It has created enormous cities and thus rescued a considerable part of the population from the idiocy of rural life. The bourgeoisie, during its rule of scarce one hundred years, has created more massive and more colossal productive forces than have all preceding generations together.”
Mr. James, I have lived half my life in the dictatorial regime which Petra wrote about. The latter part of my life has been in North America. It is indeed true that propaganda and brainwashing takes place in both systems. Sure here you have freedome to speak and that's the problem. You can speak all you want, protest, smash your head against walls, whatever you want 'cause nothing changes. Politicians still listen to lobbyists and the common man is in the gutter. The political system, like Petra said is quite the same. Only the wealthy can run for office here and without millions from corporations (basically buying your soul) one can never get elected. Back home unless you were part of the ruling class, you wouldn;t get a high position in office.
If you get a chance do read my comments from earlier in this thread. Communism was never put in practice as Marx wrote about it. What was put in practice in Romania, China, North Korea and so on, are dictatorial regimes pretending to be communist. There's nothing communist about China today or Romania back then.
Cheers!
Hello again James,
Whether you like it or not I do stand by my statement: “called by different name, all political regimes are more or less the same” and that is more than just my opinion. Sure you may not agree with it, but that will not change the facts, no matter how “creative” you want to be.
You are outrage by my statement and that’s fine with me, but for the love of God, get your facts straight! America provides Free Education? Maybe for Mickey Mouse at Disneyland in the best of cases! My son will forever be in debt because he went to school in America while I got a great education for FREE.
You bring Korea and China back into discussion and I am not going there; I wrote about Romania because that is something I know much about it and I am not inclined or fascinated by fictional writing; I will let that to the ones who have better imagination than me
Hello Happy,
I am glad you are back at the table; we are still serving only appetizers for right now and some of the guests are bringing their own water to get drunk on.
It seems that as a hostess I did well enough on providing candles to bring only “that much light” to the dinning table, so God willing, nobody would get blinded by the truth.
We may or may not get into the main course, since there is always a risk for indigestion, but let’s hope the Milanta is handy. As for dessert, a bitter-sweet after dinner drink seems most appropriate.
James - I do believe that they are the same, which is why I long since gave up on ideology. In my opinion, as long as humanity cannot move beyond greed and selfishness, then we are doomed to repeat the same mistakes - whether under the guise of communism, capitalism, socialism or any other -ism. I am very pessimistic about humanity, I am afraid.
That is an interesting quote from Marx, although it seems to have undergone a little selective censorship by omission. I have read the Communist Manifesto, many times, and still have the paper version - this one seems to be fairly accurate, if anybody wants to fill in the gaps - http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/co :)
The part that sums it up for me is this one:
"The lower strata of the middle class — the small tradespeople, shopkeepers, and retired tradesmen generally, the handicraftsmen and peasants — all these sink gradually into the proletariat, partly because their diminutive capital does not suffice for the scale on which Modern Industry is carried on, and is swamped in the competition with the large capitalists, partly because their specialised skill is rendered worthless by new methods of production."
Unfortunately, that is what I see happening with capitalism, as a small business owner on a set of scales tipped towards mass corporatism and concentration of wealth. I find capitalism little different to communism, in my opinion, as I believe that they both end up in the same place - I have the same level of contempt for both, although I don't doubt that Marx and Adam Smith had the best intentions.
Sadly, their ideology falls in the face of realism and naked greed. For me, capitalism failed in 19th century England - Dickens had it about right!
Marx made some good observations about capitalism (boom and bust, concentration of wealth). However, the alternative he proposed was worse and, as long as humanity keeps arguing about -isms, we will go nowhere.
On that score, I agree with our esteemed Hubpages colleague, Misha :)
Mr Happy— I appreciate what you are saying. And I do think lobbyists are a huge problem. But it is not at all true that you have to be wealthy to run for office. I have been quite involved in politics and I personally have known many congressmen who were just regular folks—not wealthy.
Hello Sufidreamer,
That's what I call a level headed person with an even handed persopective. Thank you, Sir. always a pleasure to have you around
I am sure James that if your friend spent enough time as a congressman he is a weathy person by now. He will have a great health care insurance for the rest of his life and probably made enough connections to last him a life time, unless he is the only politician that survived Washington; in that case I am sure he entered the endangered spicies list and in that case "we the people" should look after him
Mr. James, even as a congressman (if you are lucky enough to make it that far) if you are not part of the status-quo, you will be marginalized. Look at Ron Paul, he has been trying to pass legislation to remove the Federal Reserve Bank for years and nothing happend except for the Federal Reserve Bank to suck more and more money out of people leaving them and the country in deep debt.
The system remains the same: the wealthy get wealthier and the poor die starving. Nothing changes just like in the dictatorial regime in Romania with a few leading at the top. Please read http://hubpages.com/hub/Fii-pregatit-Be-ready
To whom it may concern
In today’s Yahoo financial section there is a great article “The Rise and Fall of America”, an absolute MUST READ for everyone
James, Sufi, Petra ... The problem seems to be one of scale ... communalism (As opposed to communism) works fine on a small scale ... the needs of individuals are understood and the abilities of individuals are understood within the community ... free enterprise (as opposed to power dominated commerce) works just fine until there is an illegal, anti-competitive monopolistic advantage.
The reason the problems are identical is not because of the ideology (though I prefer the free market ideology as most people know) ...
The problem is one of bureaucracy. Whenever you have "Big Government", "Big Business", "Big Religion" you a system that supports it's own growth and the well being of it's administrators at the expense of whatever it is supposed to do.
Bureaucracy is a heartless machine that operates on it's rules without regard for the individual. It serves the status-quo ... any bureaucracy is a ravenous beast that ultimately consumes itself ... our founders understood that and put in checks and balances ... which subsequent leaders have continually ignored ... which brings us to where we are now.
Hello BDazzler,
That is exactly right and I could not agree more. Bureaucracy is the cancer that eats from within and has no cure. It destroys even the best intentions and it proved fatal for all Empires
BDazzler - That echoes many of my thoughts
I agree that communalism would work well in a small society - you can imagine a group of hunter/gatherers pooling what they have. It does not work on large scales - I have no argument with that!
I like the free market and have no problem with the work of your founders - my profession is about as free market as it gets!
Sadly, I find that the system cannot handle globalisation very well - whether it can adapt, I don't know, although I am pessimistic. I like many of the libertarian philosophies, for example, but I don't believe that supply and demand operates on anything other than small scales - it faces the same limitation of scale as communalism. The global economy is a chaotic system; therefore, the invisible hand does not work, IMO.
The point about bureacracy - I suppose that the question is whether bureaucracy destroyed the checks and balances, or if that is a natural consequence of the system.
I suspect the latter - I think that globalisation is a challenge for which we need something else, a new Enlightenment, or we will go the same way as previous civilisations. Will we manage to change before we wipe ourselves out?
Mr. BDazzler, not only have the checks and balances been ignored but they have been removed. For example, the people lost control of their monetary system when the Federal Reserve Act was introduced by paid-off politicians. With time rules and regulations have been created for the interest of a few, while the majority of people are ignored.
The penalties for being a crooked politician are more or less non-existant so of course they`ll highjack the government. They have nothing to lose but their office. What if they had to lose their head instead ...
We might be moving on to main course now, Petra.
Hey Sufi,
We may be back to our hunter/gatherer system if NASA's 2013 Carrington event is as they say. Evidently, political concerns caused our congress to ignore their concerns ... oh, well, a world without reliable electricity may be just what we need to localize again ...
The global economy CANNOT be managed and the attempts at doing so have fouled up the invisible hand ... and Mr. Happy is correct ... rules and regulations passed by bureaucrats have taken the place of laws made "by the people".
Now that we are getting into serious talk I would be more than happy to bring the main course to the table and let everyone help themselves at least twice.
The beauty of any great party is to see the guest enjoying themselves while having an animated and interesting discussion, so by all means, keep it up.
BDazzler: I read about that one - it might shake things up a little. Global Warming might finish us, too, although brave and noble Al Gore will ride to the rescue in an SUV, from his multi-million dollar mansion, and save the day...
I will have to send you some Ouzo before 2013, because I have a feeling that global catastrophe might affect the mail deliveries for a while, although it would probably still be quicker than the Greek postal service :D
Parts of this thread sums things up, for me - most people are inherently decent and agree about most things, striving to make the world a better place. Sadly, we argue about the small differences while somebody steals the money!
We have found a small part of the world to live in peace - if the worst happens, we can grow our own food :)
EDIT: Thanks, Petra - this is a good debate and you are a gracious hostess :)
Of course I know who Uncle Ho was!
As for the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings I refer you to this article: http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v16/v16n3p-4_Weber.html which is one of many I have read.
Just to save you the bother of going there, James, I quote two paras:
"It was only after the war that the American public learned about Japan's efforts to bring the conflict to an end. Chicago Tribune reporter Walter Trohan, for example, was obliged by wartime censorship to withhold for seven months one of the most important stories of the war.
"In an article that finally appeared August 19, 1945, on the front pages of the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Times-Herald, Trohan revealed that on January 20, 1945, two days prior to his departure for the Yalta meeting with Stalin and Churchill, President Roosevelt received a 40-page memorandum from General Douglas MacArthur outlining five separate surrender overtures from high-level Japanese officials. (The complete text of Trohan's article is in the Winter 1985-86 Journal, pp. 508-512.)"
So the Japanes government was already in the beginning of 1945 trying to get a peace settlement, the only condition they stipulated was that the Emperor should not be touched.
Eisenhower wrote in his memoirs: "During his [Stimson's] recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of "face.""
So much for the bombs saving lives. They were dropped for propaganda reasons, not military ones. And tens of thousands suffered and continue to suffer as a result. So much for the light of freedom brought by the US - it seems more like a nuclear flash!
As for the US meddling in Africa - the USSR was asked to provide assistance because that was not forthcoming from other sources. And the meddling of the CIA and its assassination of Lumumba unleashed the horrors which have continued since, including the rape of the country by Mobutu, who was actively supported by the US.
I find it difficult, as an African, to think of the US as a friend because of such actions. Which is not to say that I much like the Soviet interventions in Africa, such as they were. Or the Chinese colonialism that is taking place now in Africa.
The problem with both the Soviet and the US foreign policies were that they were based on the dubious premise of "my enemy's enemy is my friend." A very shallow and dangerous thing to base a foreign policy on - ask George Bush (though I'm not sure that he is able to see that truth yet).
Like Sufi I think that both ideologies leave a lot to be desired, and like all ideologies lead to a curtailment of freedom in the end.
I love the people of the US and especially its music, but I refuse to be blinded by what is essentially an imperialist ideology. I also refuse to believe that the US is the greatest country in the world - according to what standards, exactly?
I think that what Petra did with this Hub is admirable - she opened the door to debate, and stated without fear her deductions from her experiences in two countries. And she did so with a great deal of fairness, I think.
As Sufi says, as long as we continue to argue about -isms we will get nowhere. But at least let us state opinions based on fact not emotion.
The right wing has at least as much to answer for as the left wing, as far as those concepts still have meaning. Stalin was a murderous butcher, no doubt about that. His butchery, though, had little to do with the communism proposed by Marx. Just as the dreadful deads of Hitler cannot be blamed on capitalism (though he had some powerful support from some capitalists, not least of all from the US).
Petra - thanks again for opening up this debate, and I hope your intention with this Hub has not been entirely taken over!
Love and peace
Tony
I just got your comment on my other hub and your comment "Bureaucracy is the cancer that eats from within and has no cure. It destroys even the best intentions and it proved fatal for all Empires" is interesting in light of that other hub ...
One of the evil characters in the book of Revelation is the "Whore of Babylon" although it is possible that this represents a person it is more likely a symbol of something else:
In Chapter 18, verse 3 it says "For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. "
As "Babylon" was always a symbol of "Empire" and the "Whore" caused the fall of the Empire, I think the "Whore of Babylon" is "Bureaucracy"
Every king, every nation and "big business" all have to deal with it and it makes them rich at others expense, but ultimately kills them.
Fascinating discussion. Overwhelming in fact! I have had an entire education in this half hour. Thank you so much.
Petra, if you want to attend the LA premiere of my son's film please let me know and I will get you on the list.
Hello Indigo,
I am happy to hear that this hub and the discussion generated by it gave you an "education" on the subject. I would love to attend the premiere of your son's movie so please contact me with the detail via private e-mail
Thanks for the interesting article. Though nobody here remembers, we had some Dacia autos here imported from Romania in Canada. In East Germany there is some nostalgia for the old regime. It's not like that in Romania, is it? The people in bad economic conditions are often reduced to be like prisoners using cigarettes like currency.
Hello Mercredi,
The Dacia cars were made under French licence and they were exported all over the world.
I am not surprised that some people are nostalgic about the communist era. The regime has killed the initiative of the individual and has mutilated many personalities.
With the collapse of communist the old generation found itself without known landmarks and unable to adapt – mostly do to age and inexperience. Everything was moving too fast and that generation could not cope, so they are now lost and bitter
Petra, I enjoyed reading your hub and I learned a lot about Romania from it. I was particularly interested in your observation that the communist regimes collapsed from within. I also found the discussion in the comments interesting. I don't have anything much to contribute at the moment other than that my impressions are similar to those of Sufidreamer. As I said in one of the forums I agree that the U.S. policy of containment resulted in many unjustifiable military interventions. As Eisenhower observed we are influenced too much by the military-industrial complex and by conventional wisdom establishment (Harvard, Johns Hopkins, Georgetown, Stanford, the Foreign Relations Council) views on foreign policy. If you haven't seen it you should watch Norman Solomon's movie "War Made Easy" based on his book by the same name. I sent a copy of the video and the book to my senator, Carl Levin. Here's a link to the movie trailer.
Is there no sound to that trailer or is my sound messed-up?
Nevermind, I fixed it lol - my sound was out of order on the computer. Great trailer, thanks Ralph!
Hello Ralph,
Thank you so much for reading this hub and the discussions generated by it. I appreciate you accepting my invitation to come to the "table" and voice your opinion in this matter. Communism DID collapse from within; it was only a question of time and it has nothing to do with Regan's address to Gorbaciov.
Economics DO determen the viablity of a system and communism faild its purpose of providing for its people (through silent sabotaje we also help to bring it down sooner than expected).
I am glad if it help you learn more about Romania; this was my intent, but also to make it clear that none is immune from making costly mistakes that could affect their future
Thank you Happy,
I am glad you are still following the discussion. Ralph is one of the best informed people on HP and always has a link ready for the rest of us lol - but the truth is I much appreciate those additional sources of information.
Petra,
Your hub began with a bold proclamation and proceeded to kick the hornet's nest with spirited debate.
Atta girl!
The United States is a wonderful country based on fine ideals, but I am no jingoistic flag waver blind to our country's faults and follies.
I find it hard to deny your contention that governments, whether Capitalist or Communist, evolve into self-perpetuating elitist "regimes" dedicated to controlling the masses. Your life experiences and intellect lend credence, and "reading between the lines" of the daily news reports supports your analysis.
A co-worker of mine told me that he had once come upon a management handbook that spelled out methods by which the people in charge could stir up the employees, set them one group against another...first shift against second, one area against another area, long term employees against new hires, men against women, whatever. The purpose was to keep the employee population from joining together to establish a union or affect change of any kind that would alter the status quo...even at the expense of inhibiting improved production and profits.
The company was GE, and you can't get any more Military/Industrial Complex than that.
You can see the same divide and conquer (CONTROL) techniques televised daily...Bill O'Rielly/Keith Olbermann, etc.
I hate to say it, but it's the same as the Mantra I followed when I worked as a bartender and "cooler" for 8 years...Amuse 'Em; Confuse 'Em; Defuse 'Em and Lose 'Em.
Unfortunately it's working all too well on the majority of American citizens.
Thanks for helping to draw back the curtain to reveal the little man posing as the Wizard here as in Oz.
CP
Hello Christopher,
I am not surprised in the very least that GE was applying the “divide and impera” technique to control its people. Such practices have proved to be effective for centuries and are still being used by governments allover the world.
Today’s scapegoat technique of choice is to blame all problems on illegal immigrants and is being used not only by US, but by Europeans countries as well. It is a way to divert attention from the real problems and failed policies of government; it is a way to let people vent frustrations. It worked for Hitler and it is working for others.
Times change, but human nature does not; all political regimes have faults and what makes them similar is the very foundation of their philosophy; leveling down the personalities of individuals by bringing them to the lowest common denominator and creating an amorphous mass of obedient citizens easy to manipulate.
Christopher, GE has a long history of anti-unionism. I heard Lemuel Boulware speak once around 1959. He espoused what came to be known as "Boulwareism" which posited that management should be the sole arbiter of the interests of employees, GE plant communities, the stockholders and the general public. Unions were an unnecessary annoyance.
Fear will make people give up their freedoms willingly....
Yes Ralph,
God forbid people should unite and fight for their interest. The shareholders and their happiness and profits is the only thing any business should care about; afterall, that's where the money come from and that's the way to spell success.
And our Poet is right - fear will make people give up their freedom "willingly"
Hi Petra! Excuse my late arrival at the feast. This is a fascinating hub and a great piece of work. There's not much to add that hasn't already been said, either by yourself or by one of your respondents. I've been to quite a few ex-soviet countries (though not Romania, yet) and while I've met no-one who wants the KGB to come knocking, I've also met many whose standard of living has dropped considerably since the end of the Soviet.
It's not helpful to the many to allow the few to cream off all the resources for themselves, and it makes little difference what name that few apply to themselves. The triumverate of power, wealth and corruption reigns at the heart of pretty well every empire, whether nationally based or international. We should, as ordinary citizens of whatever country, be vigilant. In particular we should beware of all extremes and extremists. Especially the tired old left-right argument which is deliberately fueled by the uncaring power base, as a distraction from the reality of our ever-widening rich-poor divide.
Hi, Petra...A very interesting and well-written hub. You were brave to write it, knowing the firestorm of controversy that would likely erupt in the comments section. I look forward to reading your series on the beauty of Romania.
Sadly, there is no utopia on the planet Earth. But
Communism is not the only experiment that failed because of corrupt leaders. Power does corrupt, and absolute power corrupts at an agregious level.
The U.S.A. was founded on the principles of democracy, but the country envisioned by the Founding Fathers has been changed as its most wealthy inhabitants--who consider themselves entitled, in the broadest sense--foam at the mouth when talking against any social programs the government provides to help those who weren't born with the proverbial spoon in their mouths.
Those who control the most money also control the most power, even though this is supposed to be a country ruled "by the people, for the people." The non-wealthy, both as individuals and collectively, do not mean anything to those with the money and the power.
Money buys elections and it buys Congressional votes. Public education in this country has been such a low priority for so long that the U.S. has become a country filled with non-thinkers who follow like sheep anyone spouting the ideologies that push all their buttons--even when to follow them means they are hurting their own prospects. This reminds me of an old rural expression my grandmother used, when she spoke of someone "cutting off his nose to spite his face."
I can remember decades ago when the U.S.A. was a country that engendered real pride and patriotism in the hearts of its citizens. The word "patriotism" is flaunted a lot these days, but mostly for the wrong reasons. "Democracy" is another word that is bandied about, often by people who have no idea what true democracy means.
I can see why you contend that no government regimes are truly for the people, when you came from a communist country to one in which a type of capitalism that originated with robber barons (whose bloodlines are still represented in the Forbes list of the country's most wealthy people via inheritance) continues with massive (and protected) corporate greed, lobbying dollars that buy politicians' votes, while the freedoms and rights that Americans once took for granted are being steadily eroded. You must be rich to be guaranteed rights.
I spoke with people living in that period and they miss does periods, when they had a house, stable job, free holidays and many more...
I just 25 but with what I spoke with these people you would have preferred to live in that period rather than what is in Romania at this time.
Food shortage ? nobody died from hunger, everybody had food, it just wasn`t wasted.
The communism keep t the gipsies from Romania in there place. Is it better now that they disgrace us in all Europe and turned a country like France from friends to enemies.
Now we are the slaves of West Europe, we work the worst jobs just to get some money to send home.
Hi Dave,
The period immediately after the collapse of communism was a tormented one characterized by power struggle of the ambitious politicians and the total confusion of the masses. The ones fighting for power, were ex-members of the communist party (the only ones who had some knowledge of how to run a country). Their first objective was to protect their privileges and enrich themselves in the process.
Spreading the rumor that the communism may not be dead the word on the street was “sell, sell, sell” and get as much money under the mattress as you can before they confiscate once again people assets – as a consequence prices were drove down to nothing; at the same time, the ones in the know were “buying, buying, buying” everything on sight, especially real estate and factories, enriching themselves overnight.
The “by design” inflation needed correction so a monetary reform took place. Money became worthless, while the assets became priceless. Corruption was rampant at all levels and the same applies to foreign investors that saw a great opportunity to make a quick profit. The ones capable to learn the game fast made enormous profits, other left Romania broke.
In less than 3 short years Romania was turned into a 2 class society – the very poor and the exceedingly rich.
Hello Jaye
The slogan "by the people - for the people" is nothing more than getting the many drunk on pure water, while giving them a fals sense of being "important". There is no such thing as "the voice" of the many; it never was, will never be!
All political systems are the same and all of them keep people on a leash; some time the leash is a little looser, some time is tighter BUT is always there; always
Hi Daniel,
I know exactly what you are saying and as a Romanian I feel your sadness and the pain of your family. Times have changed too fast and most people were left behind (especially the old generation which was not equiped to deal with such changes).
The only hope I have for Romania is that the young generation will still value education and will keep the tradition of becaming great professionals able to make a good living without becoming the white slave of western countries.
Give everyone back home my best and keep hope alive
I learn much from you about the history of Romania and related with communism. Good information from you. Thank you very much.
You are very welcome Prasetio, happy to hear you learned new things about Romania
Thank you, Petra, for this well written hub, an informative introduction into the pre-war history of your home country as well as an excellent analysis of life under so-called communism in Romania. As you know, I visited your country many times in the late 1970s and 1980s, and from my own experience I can confirm what you write about. Romania was a unique country under communism, I don't know any other country in the world where you could start an airplane with a pack of coffee.
sorry, I wanted to say "post-war history"
Petra, I just came by to say I love you. I wish I had a sonnet for you now. I certainly do not wish to desturb your home life or insult your true love whatsoever. I just enjoy you and I am devoted to you, your truth, and your love. I do indeed love you so very much. I will be back as often as I can to reinforce this love and respect for you and your family! I love you Petra!
Thank you jupiter,
I know about your trips to Romania and your knowledge of the true face of communism. I wrote this hub because it is about time for others to find out before passing judgements and thinking they know best
Thank you Micky,
What you love my dear is the truth and if you associete me with that, all I can say is I am flattered. I am trying my best, but for sure I do not have the last word in what truth is or it is not, nor do I pretend I have it.
This hub gives us in-depth and insightful information on communism of which we had vague ideas earlier. What I liked most in the hub is the fact that all types of political system in the world are corrupt and thats the root of all evil in the common society!! Philosophy and ideology on paper are faultless and its us humans who distort for personal gains!!
A great hub and all the kudos to you for the same!!
Hello dreamreachout,
Thank you for reading this controversial hub and giving your honest opinion. You are absolutely right: most philosophies and idologies look good on paper, but the way they are being aplied is another thing entirely.
Corruption is NOT the fault or "privilage" of any particular political system; it is a characteristic of our human nature and that will NEVER change.
Petra, I appreciate your intension to draw a clear picture of what was going on in Romania (and other countries which where satellites or colonies of the Soviet Union). Especially I agree with your opinion that so-called communism collapsed from within by the power of the people, and that these people are the real heroes of changes and not the politicians. In January 1991 the troops of Nobel Peace Prize winner Gorbachev killed innocent people in Lithuania and Latvia, which only wanted one thing - the restoration of independence of their countries, only days before he was forced out of office, Gorbachev's special forces killed another seven people in Lithuania.
Thank you jupiter,
It is tragic when innocent people are killed for reclaiming their rights. As for the Nobel Prize and Gorbachev, what can I say? It is more and more just a bad joke; Arafat got it and we all know what kind of peace he brought to the world. Obama got it; for what I can't figure out...
Hi Elyse,
I very much doubt that I ever said "corruption is not the fault of any political system"; if I did it was a mistake that needs immediate correction.
In fact, what I stongly believe is that CORRUPTION is at the very core of ALL political systems and it was not limited to communism. I appoligize if I did not make it clear in one of my comments, BUT the hub itself makes that exact point again and again. "Called by different names, all political regimes are the same"
Excellent article Petra. I admire your objectivity and I admire your higly intelligent comments.
How is in Romania now?
BTW, corruption...we did not know what corruption and dicatorship really is till the moment we entered into capitalism, LOL:everything is relative.
Regime does not have anything to do with name it has, as you stated.
Hello Tatjana,
I believe we knew very well what corruption looked like in a communist regime; enough to see the villas and the Mercedes of the camrades as opposed to the long lines for food to get more than just an idea.
Romania is doing no better and no worse than most of Europe at this time. The ones who were doing well before are doing even better now, other are left in the dust and life goes on...
Just jumping on buttons!
Thank you Micky
Well Petra, Yugoslavia did not face the same problems, on the contrary.
Yugoslav socialism was uncoparable with socialism of other countries - we did not have Soviet Union dicating us what to do, our polititians did not allow Sovet Union to interfere on any way since 2nd World War ended - we kicked them out. We were neutral, neither we ever favorized their example as good one, so there was big difference, which you most probably cannot imagine.
Which lines for food in Yugoslavia? No way.Which poverty? Our economy was very stable (not glamour, though).
Believe or not, majority of Yugoslav camerades did not have more then ordinary people - actually after they were retired, they were usually left only with one small flat, and moderate pension, nothing special at all, and in our country so many very ordinary people got free flats from the companies they worked for - no matter were they in party or not, so there was no difference - everybody had opportunity to succeed.
Mercedes? Only president was driven in Mercedes , but that was not his possetion, he did not drive it in his time off. After their daily duty, Yugoslav polititians were using the most simple cars like the other ordinary people - or they were using trams or walking. We never had reason to envy them. Because they gave to the ordinary people possibilities to suceed and have more then polititians had.
Actually, many ordinary people had much more money and material possesions then many of camerades, and certainly better personal cars then those personal cars of polititians.
Long lines for food? Which long lines for food in here? Yugoslavia never knew about it - everyone had plenty of food, we had the best production of high quality food - we are sick from the "food" we get know in the supermarkets. In Yugoslavia, private people were allowed to sell their food products, supermarkets had only what factories produced the rest was sold in private shops and on open markets, so our village people always gained big profits and were very content with it, many of them were rich. They are in trouble today.
After study, nobody did not have to work for 3 years in Yugoslavia- as soon as we finished FREE school or university we were free to do whatever we wanted - to remain unemployed, to go to the foreign countries and employ there or search for the job here...there was no conditioning !
We were always able to travel everywhere around the world - and everyone who wanted did that, I visited several western countries (Austria, Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Britain) in few of them I stayed longer and never wanted to permanently live in any of them, because at home was - just much better. Less glamour, but nobody can live from glamour only.
When I visited Chechoslovakia, I was so confused and sad because of their poverty. We came there as rich people, our average weighes were 10 times higher at least. We never had poverty - even the most simple worker was the middle class and could afford nice home.
Our foreign tourists always told us that we had much more then ordinary people in capitalism - better and nicer private houses, better food, free schools, the BEST POSSIBLE FREE medical care, many people got free flats, everyone employed (there was not difficult to find a job) was able to get very affordable credits for building house or renovating old ones. Nobody was ever afraid of credits - economy was stable and people were always able to pay them off, with smile on the face. Average people who lived in capitalism were envying us, not the vice versa.
Medical care was excellent - in case that Yugoslav doctors could not perform some treatmant in here (what was RARE, because we had excellent medical equipment and most educated doctors), our social system paid to the people treatmant in foreign countries. It was free again.
Yugoslav companies were very profitable - they were sharing profit with workers, so people were usually getting plenty of extra money and were highly motivated to work. We did not have problem with export - we exported various products on the whole Eastern market, and many our products were exported to the Western market. Many of our companies had highly profitable bussiness contracts for performing bussiness all around the world (Western countries, Eastern countries, Arab countries - building bussiness was especially profitable )
Yugoslavia was so rich that we were giving highly affordable credits to the poorest countries of the 3rd world and supported them financially every now and on. Yugoslavia had very little dept to the foreign banks.
Our problem was - we thought we can do better then that if every state would be independent, so system collapsed, we were not aware how rich we were, till the moment we lost that all, during our civilian wars.
Our camerades were not those ones who gained the profit in transition - new people came and created war in order to gain profit, otherwise they would never succeed because people would not allow them do it - workers in our companies were strongly against forcing the privatisation of companies and did their best to preserve them on all possible ways - so we needed war that privatisation could occur and it did, while people were dying in the war and killing each other.
Yugoslavia was not the same as Romania, Chechoslovakia, Soviet Union, Poland - we never experienced what those countries did.
Tito was not dictator - neither corrupted. What he used during his life, he returned to the people. Whatever he used during his life gave to the Yugoslavia high credibility all around the world, new bussiness contracts what improved condition of life people here - we never envyed his style of life - his dimplomatic missions were so active and highly profitable to all of us.
On his funeral were politicians from the literally whole world - western, eastern, 3rd world countries...he was highly respected and compaired to Gandhi and Nehru. He was THE ONLY POLITICIAN, besides pope John Paul 2nd on whose funeral came more then 100 presidents and premiers from the whole world to show their respect to this extraordinary men.
His own children and granchildren lived very ordinary life and certainly were not rich.
Etc, etc.
Actually we did not have pure socialism, Tito and other old Yugoslav porititians very wisely combined socialism and a bit of capitalism in Yugoslav economic system.
But this touch of capitalism was given to the very ordinary people to enjoy in it`s profit.
Hello again Tajtiana,
I agree with everything you said and I know it is all true. We knew back in Romania that the type of socialism Yugoslavia achieved is exactly what all of us wanted. The living standards were so much better and people were actually free to go as they please – either to visit other countries or to work there for a time and come back with money and help their families have a better life.
I was not talking about communism in general, Tatjiana, I was talking about communism in Romania, where the system was not as good as in Yugoslavia, but was much better than many other Eastern European communist countries.
As a student at the Foreign Languages University of Bucharest (1968-1972) I was working during summer vacations as a tourist guide and I know well how surprised foreign tourists were to see how much better our living conditions were than what they have expected. Most of them were coming to Romania to “feel rich” because of the favorable currency exchange, but in their own countries they could not afford a vacation. They were surprised to se our luxury hotels and our beautiful mountain and sea resorts where every Romanian citizen could take a vacation at a minimum cost.
There is much misunderstanding about what communism was and what was not and, unfortunately for them, many Americans refuse to see or learn; they seem to be perfectly happy with the “official version” of their own propaganda.
As for Yugoslavia fighting for the independence of Croatia, Bosnia, Monte Negro and the rest, IT WAS nothing more than a manipulation orchestrated by America in order to bring troops to the Balkans. People of different religions and ethnicities have lived in peace until America decided they know best and have to bring “order” to the rest of the world. It was a rehearsal for the Golf war, no less, no more.
Hello (this is Pat writing), This is an interesting an unusual Hub. When I was in my teens and 20s I was very interested in communism as a political system. I went to school in the USA and England, and had been told about the evils of communism. As I began reading Marx and then political commentators, I realised that a lot of people were confusing the manner in which a government regime interpreted and applied a philosophy with the pure idea of communism.
Your hub is very refreshing in that it points out that there were some good parts even to a regime that had other parts that were very bad.
It seems to be that one of the problems in the world is that so many things are presented in black and white terms. Here in England what we read about the USA now is very confusing. The other Patricia and I have separately visited the USA recently and heard wild differences of opinion about the current goverment there - and very few people who would admit that some things are good and others are bad.
I will bring this hub to my colleague's attention - and we will both read more of your writings.
Hello Patricia,
So happy you made it to this hub. You are right, people tend to see things in black and white and ignore the gray area of everything that makes life - life.
We are all "victims" of our propaganda and our own limitations; that way it is easy to form an opinion based on feelings rather than facts.
I said it a million times and I will say it again; "called by different names, political regimes are all the same".
The tragedy of the American system is its funadamental hypocrisy that has been perpetuated for 200 years. Americans are good people, but they are naive and brainwashed by empty slogans; the politicians know that if they say it loud and often enough, they will turn any lie into a "truth", not even they believe to be so anymore - but it remains nevertheless convenient for their own purpose.
If you have the time and interest, please read my other hub "I will no longer prostitute myself" - it is the way I feel about the American electoral system that give "we the people" NO REAL choices whatsoever.
I completely agree with you Petra - and know that every socialist country has different experience.
Americans have no idea what socialism is and what socialism could be(I never experienced communism, LOL) and I laugh when I read they think and are afraid that they are going towards socialism, while they cannot be more far from it.
Every system is good if majority of people live well enough, if there is not unemployment and poverty, if people have opportunity to progress. When people are poor and hungry and are lacking of opportunity- system is bad, no matter what is the name of the system.
I know the truth about my country, I was working for United Nations during the war, my post allowed me to regularly communicate with various foreign diplomats and military experts on mission here, and I was never afraid to ask questions. They supported all robbery that was happening in our economy during the war so...
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BTW, Denmark is one of the top socialistic countries in the world, it just does not use the name "socialistic", officially they have capitalism, but system benefits ordinary people on highly effective way.
Thank you again for excellent Hub.
Hello again Elyse,
I am happy you came back, but no comment; should I take it you agree with my responese?
Hello again Tajtiana,
I never had any doubt that you, as an intelligent and informed woman, knew the manipulation America used to start the Balkan war. Most people know, but Americans are still dreaming about their "great country and thei superior system".
This narrow-minded attitude reminds me of my ex-husband who kept on saying the zoo in his native town was the best in Romania, but he never bother to see another zoo; he just knew...because he want it to be true, even if it was not. Americans have the same attitude - no idea what is outside their country, but "experts" about the rest of the world. I consider that to be pathetic, but that is another hub LOL
Just came back to express once more my support for you and the telling of truth!
Love and peace
Tony
Dear Tony,
I very much appreciate your support and the deep understanding you have for this complex subject. I wish at least 20% of people who did not live the experiment could understand the other side of the coin or be able to unplug their ears and listen for a change.
I never wanted to convince anyone of anything they do not want to hear about, but I felt it was important to give a honest account of a system and a personal experience I know plenty about.
Cannot stop reading your Hub:
"Around 1968 Ceausescu ... encouraged women to have at least 4 children promising material support for their upbringing".
WOW! New Croatian government (capitalistic one!) promised about 10-12 years ago to the Croatian mothers they will get full pension for having 4 children: if more, they will get more money. Many women started to have children as cats have kittens, while believing to the government. Our capitalistic government never kept what they promised, and left families to feed and school their children on their own, many of them finished in poverty due to having more children then they were able to feed. I will never forget when the woman (who is unfortunately our premier today, Jadranka Kosor) said - "We need more Croats, who will pay our debts if there is no children?"
Now I realized they copied Ceausescu,as much as they could, because they are not so intelligent to invent something new... But they could not proclaim abortion illegal, instead of that, they left church to discourage women from abortions with their preaching. Of course, from difference of Ceausescu, our government, as I mentioned, never supported those mothers with bunch of children, born just because they believed they will get full retirement, neither ever apologized because of false promise given.
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This is just one example of capitalism here, the rest is so disguisting, that I cannot speak easily about it. Many people, who were middle class before, even intelectuals, got fired from new capitalists few years before retirement, when they were to old to find or create new job, so today face real poverty and feed themselves from the garbage, sleep in the parks on the benches, some of them get frozen, WHAT NEVER WAS CASE in Yugoslav socialism.
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I also agree that socialism failed to teach people how to be fully self-sustained individuals - but capitalism does not teach that people either - humans cannot live without other people who support them, even the richest ones could not survive without their bussiness colleagues and poor ones who work for them.
People are brain washed everywhere, and many do not want to see reality of the world.
Thank you again, you are just great Petra.
Dear Tatjana,
As you know ALL politician lie and manipulate people with no remorse; that’s what they do best. When abortion was illegal in Romania, the women who knew they could not afford more children either seek illegal abortions and risked their lives or abandoned their newborns children. The government took those children and put them in orphanages, but when Romania went practically broke, the government could not care for those children anymore and the living conditions of orphanages became miserable. After the collapse of communism the international media focused for years on this tragedy and accused the Romanian people for it; one more example of how propaganda works.
I have never seen homeless people until I came to US. I never felt discriminated against because I was a woman until I came to US (read my hub “I was only a woman”) to see how absurd and unfair this system is.
Capitalism is based on the philosophy “survival of the fittest” and has no mercy for the ones who (for whatever reason) can not make it on their own. If you really want to vomit look at the way America treats its veterans – many of whom are homeless – because of injuries that prevents them from getting a job or mental problems and post traumatic stress.
The reason I am writing my book “Disposable people” is precisely to put side by side the two opposing systems and show how regular people are treated by their government. It is a book based on personal experience or people I know first hand – no fiction of any kind. The book has 2 parts “The Hell of communism” and “The illusive American Democracy”. Which is worse? That is for history to decide, I am only giving the facts.
Mrs. Elyse, socialism does not in any way categorically result in dictatoriship. France is a socialist country and look at the conservative president they have ... not sure how he got there ...
Most norther European countries have socialist governments. Look at Belgium, Sweden, Finland, etc. There are many, many examples of socialist countries which are by no means dictatorial in their political regimes. Socialism is not just on paper, it is a dominant political structure in Europe and people are realizing that it is indeed a political system worth a vote for.
People in the United States have been brainwashed during the Cold War that commies are out to get them. Indeed the pretend communist states like North Korea, China and the like are dictatorial but they have nothing to do with what communism or socialism means. As I have said in my above comments, leaders such as Kim Jong-Il have hijacked the idea of communism and used it for their own personal benefit. Karl Marx never preached dictatorship and he never talked about the need of populations to be supressed.
Thus, do not fear the idea of socialism because of those who pretended to be socialists. We as humans, are social animals. We live grouped together in what we call societies. Therefore, it is logical to have social political systems I would think.
Hi Elyse,
Actually Mr. Happy gave you the perfect answer and there is nothing else I could add to make it more complet. He lived the socialism experiance himself and he know well what he is talking about. I can only hope more people would want to listen with an open mind and heart.
I am happy you come back and I hope you will visit me again.
Thank you Happy,
for this most honest and well documented account of what socialism is. It is sad to see that so many people are afraid to even explore what has become a "durty word" because of the ones in power who do not want to give it a chance. It is a viable alternative to the selfishness of a system that is based on greed and dominated by fear and excessive competition. Thank you
"The truth is rarely pure and never simple." Oscar Wilde
"I may contradict myself but the truth I do not contradict." Michel Eyquem de Montaigne
Thank you for providing me the opportunity to post my comments Petra! Cheers!
Thank you Happy,
Wilde was right and so are you.
Hello again Elyse,
The lines between economic systems are blurry; politicians have kept them that way and intentionally created even more confusion whit the intention of manipulating people so they can follow their agenda and preserve their many advantages.
Nothing works better than fear so through media and slogans they created (out of thin air) a monster and equated socialism with communism, which by NO MEANS are one and the same. America also equates capitalism with patriotism, another ABERRATION design to divide people and make them fight each other in the name of Founding Fathers and their perfect God. (dividi and impera at work!)
The North European countries have enjoyed a form of socialistic reforms that proved beneficial for regular people and those countries are today the most advanced in terms of living conditions. Nowhere in Europe would you see homeless veterans or older and sick people on the streets; the education system is far superior and the health care is universal and, contrary to what America says, it is good.
America has prosper a great deal during the cold war, but now - with the fall of communism - it needs another pretext to keep people scared and divided so they focus on socialism and the ghost of communism to further their agenda of “the rich get richer”
Hi Elyse,
There were NO unemployment lines in communism and what the Tea Party member saw is a direct consequence of changing gears and getting into a capitalistic economy; enough to see what's happening in America today - reported unemployment at 9.6, but actually a lot higher.
I don't understand who and how did they connect the dots - if anything that should have told them that the situation has degenerated in the last decades.
As for communism being intentionally equited with socialism, nothing new there, just plain ignorance that serves a purpose
Petra, you make the point that Communism was an "economic system" as opposed the a "political" one yet it seems the choice was by the political leaders of the time to pursue that particular direction. The interest aspect of Communism always seems to be the methodology where by things become so bleak that every individual is stripped of all but their existence then when things loosen up a bit, the people are actually encouraged by the improvement and more than willing to go along with it. On the other hand, once one is in the grip of Communism, where else can they go. While our society has its woes, I firmly believe our continued journey down the road of socialism will eventually break the back of the middle class in America and that we too will one day only have two classes, the poverty-stricken and the elite. That is the real danger that I see for America. This was a most informative piece that took a very complex set of circumstances and turned them into a nice teaching model. Thanks much for sharing it. WB
Hello Wayne,
I don't think America will ever turn to communism, but the middle class is already just about gone and more and more people are experimenting poverty. It is a system that needs to be reformed and I hope it will be; there is too much greed and too much corruption for it to survive so something should be done to correct it without distroing it.
I am glad you found this hub informative and I just love the many comments which prove once again that people are interested in finding solutions for today's world affairs.
Freedom is also different in the eye of the beholder,thanks for the enlightened view into communism,Petra;)
Hi Mentalist,
I guess you are right about freedom being on the eye of the beholder, since freedom is mostly a question of spirit; contrary to general believe we felt mostly free and the only restriction was the difficulty to travel (close to impossible to get a passaport), but othere than that...
Talking about visa. First of all, we all know that 99.9% of those who talk about visa, NEVER APPLIED for ONE. Second: What kind of imbecile people wnated the leader to be to facilitate the visa for saboteurs,detractors, an Bisnitari who were too lazy to work, but making a living on black market, to be? Lat's start speaking some truth here, Please!
Hello Dom,
Because you want to speak the truth, here IS THE TRUTH: You are not being fair in the very least in regards to obtaining a visa; it was not only hard, it was closed to impossible.
Contrary to what you said, let me assure you that the bums, prostitutes, bishnitari and the rest of the "good for nothing" people were getting a visa and the government was more than happy to let them go.
The ones who did have a problem leaving the country (even for just a short vacation) were people like me and thousands of others (highly educated people) since they were considered as possible (and even probable defectores). If you pay attention to the entiere article you will see that I did talk extensivly about the FREE education we received, so I do understand that the governmehnt made an investment in educating its people and it was not all that thrilled to lose them. That being said, the fact that getting a visa was HARD in the best of cases and close to impossible in most cases, remains. For you to say that 99.9% of Romanians never even applied for a visa is totally UNTRUE.
I have tried my best to be as balanced as possible on presenting the both sides of the coin in this article and I do resent being "accused" more or less of being one sided, when I am certainly not.
Very well written and as close to the truth as you can get.
Thank you tpogonat,
I am happy you got a chance to read this hub and I appreciate you leaving a comment, especially when it comes from an informed person as yourself.
Fantastic read! I loved the way you presented your ideas. It was very interesting to read how Romanians lived during different leaderships. You made a very accurate point: communist countries went through different phases and not all of them were Gulag and starvation like some uneducated people tend to believe.
I'd like to mention that one early morning, in the mist I saw the Romanian bank of the Danube, Ceausescu's realm was across the river.
I voted the hub up and shared.
Thank you so much moncrieff,
I very much appreciate your comment, especially because you know what was going on. As for some people being uneducated, but most importantly, refusing to learn anything that is not in line with the propaganda that brainwashed them, what can I say?
Some of the comments will tell you there is no hope for them, but some other comments convinced me that enough people are using their own heads and are not buying into the exagerations meant to discredit all aspects of communism. It is the type of one sided people that worries me and I pitty them, while I have great respect for open-minded ones ready to look at the whole pizza, not just at the one slice they like best.
Petra, You are so incredibly smart. So truthful, and I think you are wonderful. There is so much information in this hub that I will have to re read again. I had to laugh at some of the comments. James is funny. A "real political guy"! This is a guy who adores Bill O'Reilly! LOL. I rest my case. Anyone who disagrees with James is Un American. Whooptie do! You keep telling it like it is, some of us are listening. Love ya.
Hi Lisa,
Thank you for your kind words. My main concern was to keep a balance and to be as objective as possible, but some people, will never open their mind to anything that is not in line with their rigid opinions.
As for James, should I judge him by his political views and religious beliefs, I would not be surprized to find out he is a strong KKK supporter
A great documentary on Communism in Romania:
Mr. Happy Level 7 Commenter 19 months ago
I cheated on this one since I got to read it before it got posted but I will say again that this is a short and percise acount of what our country went through after WWII. Well written!
I appreciate the note at the beginning too. The idea of communism in our dictator's eyes was a perverted one and the system he established did not portray the ideas of Karl Marx.
Cheers!